February 9th, 2006
HBO Says No PVR, No VCR, No Nothing
By Michael Santo
Contributing Writer, RealTechNews
There is much discussion over the broadcast flag and the analog hole, and though the courts have overturned the FCC’s attempt to enforce the broadcast flag, HBO has thrown its hat into the ring with an FCC filing that to say the least is disturbing.
By way of refresher, the analog hole legislation breaks broadcast content into four “Technical Content Protection Responses,” each with increasingly stringent restrictions. At the bottom is No Technical Protection Applied, meaning that the programming would be treated like every other transmission today. From there we move to Copy One Generation Content and Copy Unlimited No Redistribution Content which would allow limited recording and copying. HBO’s proposal would put its programming into the category of Copy Prohibited Content, which makes copying and recording of any kind verboten. Source: Ars Technica
We Say: Yep, that means no PVR, no VCR, no recording to your media PC, no nothing. As someone with a PVR who never (except maybe sports) watches live TV, this is ridiculous! Yeah, HBO On-Demand makes their reasoning obvious, but I don’t want to pay extra for On-Demand when I have a PVR. Ironically, there was even an episode of Sex and the City in which Miranda finds a new love: Tivo (and yes, for those who never saw it, it was an HBO show).
Calvin says:
Even without reading the article it seems obvious HBO would want “Copy Prohibited Content” considering their adoption of on-demand programming. I assume that is their response to your “no live tv” complaint, with a current exception for live boxing events. I use HBO on-demand and like it. Not quite as flexible as the pvr, but it sure does weaken your argument.
February 9th, 2006 at 8:12 pm
Michael Santo says:
Well, I don’t have HBO on-Demand in my area. And neither do a lot of people. Plus, although it’s not pay-4-play, you do have to pay extra for On-Demand as a service, don’t you? As the Full Ars Technica story, says, it sounds like just another way to get more money for the bottom line.
February 9th, 2006 at 8:48 pm
Bill King says:
Ugh. The content “providers” in america disgust me lately. They’re using failing and outdated business models, then throwing the blame on “teh pirates”. The bad part of that, they’re neutering technologies that could be used to make them money to try and desperately get back some the money they’re haemorrhaging because of their failing and outdated business models (and lack of new and interesting content isn’t helping any either). I honestly can’t see them getting a clue any time in the near future either, which I think is utterly depressing.
February 9th, 2006 at 9:34 pm
Bill M says:
I have an even better suggestion, not just for HBO. Turn off the idiot box and go create something yourself. Learn an art, have a conversation, write a book (or just read one).
TV is dead, movies are dying, and the vast majority of recorded music is crap. The reason is not that they have the wrong business model, but because it is a business. The goal of business is to make money, while the goal of an artist or artisan is to create something with intrinsic meaning.
Be your own artist.
February 10th, 2006 at 4:55 am
jb says:
90% of EVERYTHING is crap.
February 10th, 2006 at 5:06 am
Inglix the Mad says:
HBO: You can’t record our award winning movies or tv shows on your PVR anymore.
Me: Uh huh, and how long do you think that’ll last?
HBO: Well, doing it would be breaking the law! We’ll send people to jail.
Me: Okay, that’s fair, of course I could just cancel HBO because, well, without timeshifting I’ll never view anything.
HBO: We’ve got HBO on Demand!
Me: Yep, and I don’t feel like paying an extra couple of bucks a month when I already have the PVR. Not that it matters to you, I’m just one customer leaving.
Folks, Thomas Jefferson would vilify content producers nowadays. Jefferson didn’t even like the idea of copyright. He aquiesced to a 7 year term renewable for another 7 because he believed that length of time wouldn’t be too onerous. Copyright exists to pay an author of a work for that work. Copyright was intended to provide an incentive to create. It was not created to be a perpetual annuity nor exist for 50 years after the author’s death.
Greedy Buggers…
February 10th, 2006 at 5:28 am
Calvin says:
This thread is funny. “TV is crap” “Turn off your idiot box” “I’m not going to pay for that”… I don’t believe it. People will continue to shell out the $$ for the convenience. The business model works because consumers, as a whole, are gutless and fire off empty threats when they don’t get what they want. The demand isn’t going anywhere.
Interesting parallel… We blame big oil because gas prices are too high, but we run out and buy a 2mpg Ford f9000 super-duty. Ford’s day is finally coming, thank God, but far too late.
February 10th, 2006 at 6:13 am
Bedammit says:
Not allowing recording TV is a return to the control days of early media.
Next step witll be no TV guides.
Then no picture.
Finally we will end up with OnDemand Radio with DRM speakers and headphones.
-Bedammit
February 10th, 2006 at 6:30 am
Mark says:
My Issue with this is that HBO on Demand is not in HI-DEF. When I PVR the HBO stuff I want to watch, I do this so I can watch the show in HI-DEF. Unless HBO on Demand is offered in HI-DEF, I may have to drop the channel and purchase the Series (ie Soprano’s etc) that I want to watch
February 10th, 2006 at 7:37 am
Marcos V says:
I’m really glad that HBO is pushing this position. This will bring the issue to the forefront and maybe we’ll get more viewers to take a stand.
If there’s enough resistance, maybe HBO — and other greedy companines — will back off.
If HBO is successful in forcing most of us to rent content the way they want us to, then I know there’s no hope and that it’s time to take the big step of cancelling HBO and moving on to something else. Maybe there will be so little left to watch, that I can weed the family off of expensive bundled cable service all together.
February 10th, 2006 at 8:59 am
Metermax says:
I’m glad HBO is doing something this stupid.
I’ve been upset with them since I discovered they had started using ‘copy once’, and that my newly purchased Toshiba DVD recorder (2004) recognized it. This meant that to time shift shows, I had to start buying dvd-ram disks.
Well, they cancelled Carnivale, so that tears the other excuse we used to subscribe to them. Now this copy once thing.
Its obvious HBO wants you to buy their shows on DVD or whatever comes next, and use their *pay service* to advertise the content. Good business for them, if they produce anything that’s actually worth watching more than once.
I like PVR, but if the premium services drop my ability to time shift shows from satellite, I’m ditching that premium service. If they all start doing it, that’s the end of PVR. I’m not paying for On Demand, period.
February 10th, 2006 at 10:44 am
Ray says:
OK…actually I think that there is a huge erroneous leap (from what is actually ‘happening’ to what is being ‘inferred’) going on here. The “broadcast flag” (as I understand it) only does two things: 1 - It blocks digital HD content from being digitally recorded as HD (which is mostly what is happening already to those of us with the technology to do this), 2 - (and this is what all of the hub - bub is about) it down - converts (reduces the resolution) of all 720p, 1080i, and (eventually) 1080p signals (High Definition) to 480p (DVD quality) for the component (3 wire) analog video outputs on systems which use this mechanism for viewing HD.
So, when the flag is on you will not be able to use your analog component video connections to record content in the same resolution as what you are watching it in (IF you are watching in Hi - Def). Instead, you only get lowly DVD - quality recordings (which, when re - up converted…something that many systems do already and most will do in the near future….looks nearly as good as the HD source material).
For those without HD receivers or who are recording using “S Video”, “Composite Video”, or RF Coax, you will still be able to record the program exactly as you can now. Tivo, VCR’s, DVD recorders, Windows Media Center, etc… should all work just fine with either a “standard def” source to standard def recording or (worst case) with a HD source to “enhanced def” recording….still not bad at all.
What we *won’t* be able to do (when the flag is on) is grab HD content digitally (or by grabbing the analog signal and then compressing it ourselves….something that nobody can really do today *anyway*) and record it digitally *as HD*. If we could, then the potential for “PERFECT” Piracy would exist (’perfect’ because a 1080i or 1080p HD image is equal to the resolution that motion picture masters are recorded in today…get an HD copy of a movie on HBO and you can literally reproduce an image exactly as it was shown on the screen….*MOVIE THEATER* screen, that is!).
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t like this broadcast flag, either. However, it’s use (no matter how strict) hardly creates stranded investments in our current video recording systems (as I said, nobody can record analog HD content today anyway). For those who *can* record HD digitally (a few people with HD Tivo’s and even fewer with DVHS machines with special converters or cable boxes) today, the ability to record most HD content from movie channels and such was *never* available anyway…not due to the “broadcast flag” analog hole issue, but due to the current “no record” flag required on all HD - capable digital recording devices.
So it seems to me that while it certainly would be nice if the broadcast flag was not an option for broadcasters, it is hardly a case of “the sky is falling”.
Just my own $0.02, though.
February 10th, 2006 at 2:57 pm
Ed says:
This is a no-brainer! For us, when HBO or other providers for which we PAY (stress “PAY”) prohibit us from recording, we stop paying. In other words, we will discontinue our subscription for ANY provider that restricts recording what we pay for. It is absurd to expect people to pay for what they cannot watch!
February 11th, 2006 at 3:12 am
John Ofthetown says:
Watch how fast people unsubscribe from HBO as soon as this starts. Can’t record? Send me the DVD, Netflix or Blockbuster Online! In a few years most people won’t watch TV on the network’s schedule. And they won’t pay for “in demand” when they can use a DVR for free.
February 11th, 2006 at 5:20 pm
jeff says:
Is there anyone out there that doesn’t believe that a hack for this won’t be found within a few days of it going into effect?
Every single piece of software that has some kind of protection has been hacked!
Even the Genuine Windows cerification.
As for jb, the 90% of everything is crap, poster, please remember to give the credit to the creator of this.
It is best known as “Sturgeon’s Law” after Theodore ‘Ted’ Sturgeon, a great science-fiction writer from the 40’s to the 80’s.
February 11th, 2006 at 9:22 pm
Terry H says:
Just do without HBO….there will be some movie channel that will let us PVR folks record…so long HBO….Terry
February 12th, 2006 at 11:42 am
Eloi says:
The way I see it, any flags that are embedded will be ignored by any “hobbyist” systems — thereby making them experience greater demand than the retail systems.
OTOH, it seems to me that the best way to kill this legislation is to require that it also makes “commercial flags” a required feature as well, so that “parents can choose to not subject their children’s impressionable minds to advertisements of products and/or information for adult use only.” (nudge, nudge, wink, wink).
February 13th, 2006 at 12:32 pm
heldmyw says:
Might this work?
Run the HBO signal through an analog tuner.
Put your PVR on the output of said tuner. Granted, there will be a tiny bit of degradation going digital>analog>digital, but it should eliminate the problem of time shifting. Analog devices don’t capisce digital flags…
March 17th, 2006 at 3:49 pm
my hardware is mine says:
Wow this sounds like the early 90s copy-protection escalation wars. Hmmm who will win: a few engineers and a roomful of marketing cronies OR an interconnected network of thousands of IQ 180+ people?
The average guy will lose out, but then he doesn’t want to have to learn anything new so he’ll happily pay whatever the digital tyrants demand. I on the otherhand like to watch my programs WHEN I WANT to watch them… and will do so on my terms, in my way, when I please. And if I get prodded enough I’ll educate others along the way.
The draconian attitude is unwise, and historically unfruitful.
Yes, I’ll continue to pay my subscription fees as I’m not suggesting outright piracy, but entertainment is supposed to be convenient to ME.
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