January 25th, 2006
Play-Doh Can Foil 90% of Most Fingerprint Scanning Security Systems
By Alice Hill
RealTechNews
Today, Fortune has a piece on plans by retail giants, Costco, Target, and Wal-Mart to move to fingerprint biometric technology as a way of cutting down on fraud and to expedite check-out line time. Sounds good, but it turns out that a simple “finger” molded from Play-Doh can foil 90% of these systems.
We say: D’oh. (Couldn’t resist!)
Associate Professor of Electrical and Computer Engineering Stephanie Schuckers and her team at Clarkson University found that most scanning systems can be fooled 90% of the time by taking a mold of the mark’s finger, filling the mold with Play-Doh, and using the fake digit to gain access. Don’t go running out to Toys ‘R Us just yet, though, as the Clarkson team also designed an algorithm that detects the spread of perspiration from the pores out to the ridges of a live person’s finger, and is only foiled by the Play-Doh method 10% of the time. Source: Engadget
Here’s how biometric payment works: To set up an account, customers scan their fingerprint at an in-store kiosk, enter their phone number, and then submit checking and credit card account information. To make a purchase, they place their finger on a scanner at the register, enter their phone number, and choose how they want to pay (credit, debit, or checking.) Source: Fortune
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David Johnston says:
This method of trickery would require the would-be thief to make a mold of the victim’s finger. I doubt that’s very likely to happen to most of us.
January 25th, 2006 at 10:46 am
Betty Morgan says:
Actually, think how many things we handle from which a fingerprint can be lifted via plain every day tape, then transferred via some technology (I’m sure it exists) to a substance like play doh. I’ll not do this for the same reason I’ll not do speed pay. I’m not sending my information wirelessly for speed pay and I’m not putting my information into Wal-Mart’s database to be hacked via a fake fingerprint
January 25th, 2006 at 12:46 pm
James Steiner says:
Making a mold of a strangers fingerprint is not that difficult. Here:
1. Go to wal-mart biometric kiosk
2. If wal-mart has staff that cleans print-reader after every scan, wait until either that person starts getting lazy, or until store manager decides its more important for carts to get collected…
3. Use clear package tape to collect last user’s fingerprint residue from print-reader.
4. Go home.
6. scan print into computer
7. print black/white version
8. use circuit-board making kit to burn print into circuit-board substrate. This is your mold.
Now you can make fingers from Play-Doh(TM) brand modeling material all day. However, I would think that a home-made finger-condom made with liquid latex would probably work better. Would it?
January 25th, 2006 at 12:51 pm
David Johnston says:
You can’t just lift the fingerprint and use it as is I think. You’d need to make it 3-dimensional. However, lifting the print and then transforming that 2-dimensional image to a 3-dimensional object might be possible. James’ method sounds like it might work, but I wouldn’t know
January 25th, 2006 at 1:26 pm
Michael says:
No way in hell I’ll ever use something like this.
January 25th, 2006 at 2:08 pm
Random EE student says:
Yes, it is this easy - we worked with these in a security class.
- stand behind person who uses it.
- lift, quickly, with tape (you can make mistakes)
- transfer to fake playdoh finger with a pin
- profit
the system is really easy to beat - it has to be a ‘loose’ system, so it takes fingerprints from idiots who put their finger on wrong, crooked, etc etc. if you get even close, you win.
January 25th, 2006 at 2:14 pm
Doug says:
It really doesn’t take that long to pay with a card. Honestly you would save about 1/2 sec. And since a lot of people have a hard time with newer technology it will probably take longer, like those people at the self-scanning lanes in some stores.
January 25th, 2006 at 2:15 pm
Arnold S. says:
Couldn’t they just require the scanners to detect a pulse? Last time I checked, Play Doh wasn’t people..
January 25th, 2006 at 2:17 pm
Can I use this finger ? says:
I’m waiting till the can just scan the number on my forehead….
January 25th, 2006 at 2:22 pm
Jimmy Neutron says:
It would take me 5 minutes to crack this system in many different ways. As far as the perspiration, I could mimmic that too. I have been into computers and security for a long time now, and if you have half a brain, you can beat the system. It is easy. NOW for the real issue….
We are in the timeframe and the realm of the “Mark of the Beast”… the question is, which technology is the real thing? I think it is the Verichip Implant. Mark my words, the Verichip will be MANDATORY for all US citizens to take within the next 2 years due to Identity security issues and terrorism… Are you willing to go to HELL or be DAMNED so your life can be easier…. NOT ME! They will have to shoot me before I will take part in ANY of these “NEW” security technologies. And if I end up having a problem with buying and selling in the future, I will just get one of you suckers to do my bidding.
Jimmy Neutron
Evil Genius
January 25th, 2006 at 2:24 pm
KC says:
Meh! Media frenzy Alert! This is Moot. Most new generation biometric scanners (such as Touchchip) Require a pulse and a tempature to valadate. Commenter 8 is correct. Our IS staff tried one whole day to fool these with no sucess. Nice try kiddies…..
January 25th, 2006 at 2:27 pm
Jason says:
Its still not that easy, as you might be able to fake the print but you have to know the phone number that goes along with it. Just like you need a pin with an ATM card. That said, I’m still not going to use it.
January 25th, 2006 at 2:29 pm
idiot says:
yeah… you guys are idiots…
January 25th, 2006 at 2:38 pm
jon-david schlough says:
Biometrics have arrived at WalMart, Costco, Target???….Doh!
I remember working on a presentation for the VP of Enterprise Architecture at Target when I was there, and it had one whole slide of info on biometrics! I did a ot of research, actually, and I like it. It’s
January 25th, 2006 at 2:44 pm
R. E. Ality says:
In the real world, not in a college lab, this won’t happen. Pratical experience is always better than being “book smart”.
January 25th, 2006 at 2:45 pm
Kaz says:
No matter what they do, there will always be a way to hack it. Besides, have they tried it with one’s finger covered in silly putty?
Have they put components of a vibrator and a heating pad inside a hand swiped off a mannequin. Then mist it with a spray bottle?
Although, all a med student would have to do is steal a finger off a cadaver. Then hack the internet for phone and credit card numbers.
January 25th, 2006 at 2:50 pm
Jorge says:
They’re already using this technology at my local grocery store.
No, I have not seen anyone use it.
But they gave me a brochure!!
January 25th, 2006 at 2:54 pm
Sean Murray says:
Unreal.
They’re unleashing technology on the population who is most intimidated by it.
Anyone here ever get stuck in the self checkout behind the old lady who can’t follow the pictograms and verbal instructions from the machine?
I can see people ’swiping’ their fingers, waving their fingers at the machines, etc. The lines are long enough with the morons behind the register, never mind letting the customers check themselves out.
It will work for some of the customers, but will frustrate the majority.
January 25th, 2006 at 3:00 pm
mike says:
everyone here who thinks they can fool this with play-doh are idiots. Not only do the legistics of swiping somebody else print, make a WEARABLE 3-D model and getting this strangers phone number all to steal a few hunderd dollars worth of merchandise knock out 99.999999999999% of the morons who try this(doesn’t old fashion shop lifting sound a bit easier?)… you don’t think anyone is going to notice a big pink play dough thumb?
didn’t bother to spell check.
January 25th, 2006 at 3:04 pm
Some Unrandom Person says:
Why is it that this sort of thing reminds me of putting a frog in a pot of water and slowly turning the heat up? Eventually the frog is boiled to death because it was such a slow progression from benign temperatures to boiling water that the frog was comfortable from degree change to degree change…
Yes, the mark is on its way to debut as mandatory and no, I won’t accept it.
Read the book of Revelation for more information.
friendlylight (at) gmail.com
January 25th, 2006 at 3:09 pm
Antioch says:
Some people are so dumb. Do you really think faking a fingerprint is easier than faking your credit card signature? Or a fake photo ID? Anything kind of biometric protection is better than the protection you have now, which is not saying much.
January 25th, 2006 at 3:11 pm
Swim says:
Well mike, with your obvious grasp of “legistics” I can’t help but feel comforted by your point of view… and I don’t give a damn if you spell checked… you should have passed 8th grade before getting into a grown-up discussion like this…
January 25th, 2006 at 3:12 pm
zomg says:
http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comments.pl?IDLink=1875912
January 25th, 2006 at 3:24 pm
David Edward says:
It seems that the technology to beat the crooks will cost more to maintain and install than they lose through theft.
Consider this: repeatedly buy stuff with dirty hands - sooner or later the store will get pissed off with replacing the plastic screen over the reader - problem solved.
And this: Spread a rumour that AIDS can be spread by these things and sit back and watch the fun.
Looks like the security companies are the real thieves……
January 25th, 2006 at 3:29 pm
ken says:
You people kill me. You don’t even have all of the details and you’re saying how it’s easy to beat. My best is when someone has a completely unsubstantiated claim so suddenly they make themselves an expert in biometrics that has done extensive testing on a “similar” project. Give me a break. You guys watch too much TV. These are companies with more money that you can shake a stick at and they put much of it into R&D. Get a life. Wait until it comes to fruition and then you can be the one to make millions on the fake finger scam! Yipppeeee! Swimming in dough! I’ll tell you what. I’ll be first. Here’s my finger.
January 25th, 2006 at 3:33 pm
Zach says:
you know what they do with the credit signature slips???
the file them for about 3 years!, once it gets returned to the cashier, they file it, at the end of the day it gets put in a bigger file with the previous weeks, at the end of the week it goes in a closet, and they clean out the old box that is 3 years old…
it’s how it works where I work…
the only time they are looked at after the cashier gets them is when someone contests a charge, if they have the slip then they dont get to remove the charge…
on topic…
they are planning on putting them in at the store I work at, and i would imagine that the cashier would be able to make them re-enter if they look like they are doing something fishy (we dont have self checkouts)
Zach
January 25th, 2006 at 3:42 pm
Cranky Media Guy says:
The reason for opposing nonsense like this is NOT because you will go to Hell if you use it. Hell is a fairy tale, just like Heaven and God. The reason to oppose it is because it’s simply giving more and more information about you to the government’s database.
This is NOT anything vital to national security or anything arguably defensible like that. This is NOT necessary for ANYTHING when you get right down to it. As the poster above said, it’s like the frog in the pot; the metaphorical temperature is being turned up one degree at a time until, before you know it, anyone who dares to oppose any policy of the government is put behind bars somewhere where you can’t visit them.
Yes, I realize a lot of you will call me paranoid. If you could compare, in real time, the situation in this country five years ago (pre 9/11) versus the climate today, I think you’d be better able to see the Big Picture. Since that isn’t possible, I guess you’ll just have to pay attention and stop being so craven that you want Big Daddy Government to protect you from every boogie man you perceive is out to get you.
January 25th, 2006 at 3:48 pm
phattie says:
PUH-lease people. If you’re so freaked out that the guy behind you is gonna tape off your fingerprint, scan it into their computer, and painstakingly spend hours making a 3d mold, just wipe off the damn reader when you’re done with it!
Honestly, I’m more worried that the guy behind me will steal my wallet from my jeans and stealing my identity and credit cards then reconstructing my fingerprint from some smudge I left somewhere.
These posts remind me of the criticisim Ford got when it went to mass produce the automobile.
Personally, I think it’s a great idea. Payment is always the slowest part of checkout.
January 25th, 2006 at 4:01 pm
Cheese Toast says:
What happens if all the stores go to this system, cash gets eliminated and a person has no fingers/hands/arms? Do they just tell them “too bad, gimp”? (yeah I know it’s far-fetched)
January 25th, 2006 at 4:26 pm
SHRIKE says:
People will allways find a way to get past any security system. there is no fail safe system. Just gimme a roll of scotch tape, a scanner, and I could rub the sweat off my forehead, rub it off on the printout and put it on my thumb. Paper can hold moisture and it can heat up to about the same tempeture of my body. and you could feel a pulse right through it.
January 25th, 2006 at 5:12 pm
Biohazerd87 says:
I own a fingerprint scanner and let me tell you some things. You are thinking that the screen is 100% clean and crisp. After 10 seconds the thing starts collecting dust. There is one factor in preventing a usable print. Second if they don’t clean it after every use, getting one usable finger print isn’t possible. Everyone said the same thing about creditcards and online theives. Millions of people buy things online everyday, they enter their creditcard number into a website that for all they know isn’t even secure. Some websites store your card information so when you log on you don’t have to put it in again. If someone had your password they could drain your account. Think about all the forms you put your social security number on. It would be easier to steal these things than to fake a finger print. Besides don’t you think someone would notice someone with Play-Doh on the finger print scanner, or a wet vibrating dummy finger? And lastley you nut balls worried about the government “watching you” or getting information about you, get a life… you should be worried about the domestic spy program that would allow the NSA to wiretap you without a warrent.
January 25th, 2006 at 5:26 pm
Simple is Better says:
All of these new technologies are crap, why bother with them?
I use checks for bills, VISA for emergency or online purchase, and cash for everthing else. I can’t stand the retard in line buying a pack of gum with a debit (and he’s not getting cash back). Cash is fast, untraceable, and besides how else are you supposed to buy drugs?
January 25th, 2006 at 5:51 pm
Biohazerd87 says:
Another thing that I forgot to add is who says it will be the kind of scanner you can put tape on. Some of the newer scanners, like the ones on the IBM labtops and other laptops are just a small window that you must run your finger across.
January 25th, 2006 at 5:52 pm
Arnie Schivle says:
Why don’t they just use DNA sampling. Just have a little Dixie Cup at the check out. I wouldn’t object to droppin’ off a sample.
January 25th, 2006 at 5:54 pm
David Edwards says:
I’m not worried about the risk from the shopper behind, I’m worried about organised fraud by the people behind the counter and the fact that the World seems to be going crazy.
It’s obvious that this is counterproductive in terms of crime prevention, so there must be an alterior motive.
January 25th, 2006 at 5:57 pm
JJR512 says:
Some people have commented on the government using this to maintain an informational database about each person. Personally, I don’t care. First of all, if the government wants information about you, they probably already have it, or will get it without you knowing it. Secondly, so what? I’m not doing anything wrong. It doesn’t bother me that the government has my fingerprints on file, which I gave voluntarily! It’s like people complaining about websites knowing a little bit about you personally: What’s that information used for? Targetted advertising, which I don’t understand why people hate so much. Personally, I’d rather see ads for things I’m interested in (computers, movies, games, books, music) than things I’m not interested in (tampons, genital herpes medications, incontinence products, running shoes).
January 25th, 2006 at 6:47 pm
Aaron says:
I actually thought of this years ago. My intention though was to make a fake fingerprint of an enemy and use it to plant his fingerprints at the scene of some “crimes” (burglary anyone?). You could even put his fingerprints on some plastic baggies, fill them with real cocaine and toss them under his car seat while calling him in for a DUI sometime.
Enjoy!
January 25th, 2006 at 7:11 pm
Dynamite says:
Yea, now our figerprints are in the system, and you better hope youre not a wanted felon. I have no doubts the FBI has their guns out demanding the info.
January 25th, 2006 at 8:09 pm
Michael says:
I am a small “s” survivalist who believes in “Better save than sorry”. I do not want my government to be looking over my shoulder every time I buy a stick of gum. I also do not want RFID tags on everthing I buy for the same reason. We have so little privacy now I would fight to keep what little I have. I am lucky since I am Canadian and can see how things can be going by watching my friends to the south and use that as a guide to what I should do if I want to avoid the same fate. Another reason I do not want this technology is it will create more stressed out Americans who will decide to head north when the S##t hit the fan. Just what we need!More stress!
As a side note it is good for my business as a professional Reflexologist. Let me try massage before you shoot me Eh!
January 25th, 2006 at 9:36 pm
Michael says:
Me again- No,that is not a typo I believe in using cash or barter as much as possible so one of my mottos is “Better save than sorry” that also works for not racking up huge credit debt.
January 25th, 2006 at 9:42 pm
Spooky says:
The thing about the old excuse “well I’m not doing anything wrong” is this… there’s corrupt people with the information who might try to use it for blackmail purposes.
Have you ever done anything not illegal but embarrassing? Something that would hurt your reputation with your friends, family or coworkers? Think of if you held some unpopular political, religious or other views, and somebody wanted to embarass you into silence. That’s why unbridled spying is a bad idea for the average citizen. For the good it does (supposedly making terrorists and felons easier to catch) it opens up a pandora’s box ripe for abuse. That’s why we should oppose it.
Plus it’s just a dumb idea. A waste of time and money…
January 25th, 2006 at 10:20 pm
Play-Doh Employee says:
I work for Play-Doh.
So I am really getting a kick out of most of these replies.
Some of you guys are very good at making it sound like you know what you are talking about.
But trust me…. You don’t.
I think you just want to make yourself sound smart, when in reality you dont know what you are talking about.
This is how bad info gets passed around.
If you dont know about the topic….Dont make yourself sound like you do.
Cuz some Farkers belive anything they hear.
January 25th, 2006 at 10:46 pm
lvlolvlo says:
it’s called PayByTouch
January 25th, 2006 at 11:51 pm
lak says:
Sorry, this is just dumb. The would be identity thief would have to get their hands on the fingerprint. This would make not be as easy as some of these comments want you to believe. Then, they have to make a Play Doh or some other kind of mold. This would cost money and time. (And for what? One possible fraudulent purchase?) And THEN, they would have to go up to the register with the Play Doh or the mold of the finger, and without the cashier realizing it, put it up the the scanner.
And they would have to do ALL this effort,…and spend all this time and money doing this….just in the hopes that 10% of hte time, they can make one large purchase without getting caught.
Seriously, if any victim is stupid enough to get caught by this, then they sure as hell are not secure enough to guard their credit card. And a stolen credit card is MUCH easier to exploit for identity theft.
In other words, this fingerprint system is still SEVERAL times more safe than the current methods.
January 26th, 2006 at 12:25 am
lak says:
Not to mention, there is also most likely going to be a password/PIN required. So they have to steal that too.
January 26th, 2006 at 12:26 am
PC says:
Folks, I stillbelieve the weakness in these systems that the professional fraudsters will be aiming for is the human element.
Get a buddy to work at Walmart, wherever.
Get them to slip a data reader between the print reader and the till.
Record both the pin/phone numbers and the fingerprint data (Not the actual print, but the binary code for it)
Take them home and make online purchases and then ask cash refunds.
Just like credit cards, the real bad guys don’t want your actual card to make one or two purchases, they want your info so they can leach one or two dollars from thousands of accounts, making it harder to find.
The human element and NOT the technology is the weakness here.
January 26th, 2006 at 2:46 am
lak says:
Biohazerd87, sorry, but the domestic spy program DOESN’T allow them to wiretap me without a warrant. It allows them to wiretap a FOREIGN terrorist suspect who happens to be talking to an American. Time to stop getting your “news” from the ultra left web sites and….NPR. (laughable.) And no time has a domestic to domestic call been tapped.
January 26th, 2006 at 2:48 am
lak says:
Simple is better…Debit cards are often much faster than paying with cash. I have even been to supermarkets that have DEBIT ONLY express lines becaue when people use them properly, it is faster than digging out your wallet, counting out the right amount, and then waiting for change.
Especially the people (sory, but usually women) who wait until the amount is displayed before even reaching in their pocketbooks for their wallet, let alone have it out and ready
January 26th, 2006 at 2:51 am
voidgazing says:
lak, do you believe in the inherent goodness of man or something? Let me add this up for you: Culture changes over time (often cyclicly.)
Imagine Joe McCarthy, with wiretapping powers of this sort, fingerprint data, etc.
The reason this is bad isn’t what has been done, it is what could be done, and given cyclic change, *will* be done. But hey, at least the trains will run on time…
This is like giving someone a loaded gun to point at your head: you now depend, forever, on their goodwill and sanity to prevent being de-brained. Goodwill and sanity are not dependable.
January 26th, 2006 at 3:46 am
Jennifer says:
There is a product similar to the one everyone is talking about that is already on my university’s campus - only its billed for students who ‘have no money’ so that they ‘don’t worry about being hungry’. The company is called IMye so go to www.imye.com to check it out. Its interesting, but I don’t think I would trust it. It’s also fairly brand new so I don’t know how many people have signed up for it but it looks just like the credit/debit card consoles in grocery stores except that its blue, has a small screen for your finger scan, and has more buttons. I believe this product has been installed in several campuses across the country so Target, Walmart, and Costco are a litte behind the times, it would seem.
January 26th, 2006 at 5:26 am
renton says:
That’s a bit strange. As far as I know those systems- in the case of security this is not a regular scanner (like in some PocketPCs)! It is not only reading your fingerprints but also does some biomedical scans like checking the spread of vains on the finger.
Play-Doh and any other mysterious methods from movies like mission impossible are not working in the real life when the protection is done well.
For sure we are using such devices in the far, far east where people wears animal skins and lives in caves
January 26th, 2006 at 6:07 am
Micah says:
Here’s a suggestion. Don’t shop at WalMart, Costco or Target. Those places represent the demise of healthy competition anyhow. Just go to your locally-owned stores and you don’t have to deal with any of this! It’s that easy! I promise…
January 26th, 2006 at 6:08 am
Turd says:
You people are retarded. This technology cannot be fooled that easily. The same company (cogent w/ pay-by-touch) is also resonsible for all new bio-passports all over Europe as well as Homeland Security’s new US-VISIT program. Good luck with your play-dough at Wal-Mart you retards.
January 26th, 2006 at 6:33 am
Chewy says:
To those of you that think biometric scanners save your fingerprint and the government will get it, that is absolute bunk. These systems keep track of a number of points on your finger in a mathmatical equation. In no way is your FINGERPRINT stored.
January 26th, 2006 at 6:51 am
Nighthawke says:
One farsighted look into the future was Ian Fleming’s “Diamonds are Forever” movie where 007 used a fake fingerprint made of some kind of transparent material, perhaps latex. Back then it seemed to be farfetched, but these days with biopasses it’s very plausable and perhaps probable.
January 26th, 2006 at 7:06 am
Alice says:
I have the ThinkPad with the fingerprint scnner built in. It is not a big pad that would show a finger print - like the biometric product Microsoft tired a few years ago - that thing glowed and clearly showed a print on the gel-like surface.
The IBM version has a scanning surface only an eight of an inch tall and you run your finger down the surface as it scans your print and comapres it to what is in the DB. What I want to know - why not make those devices the easy way to buy online? I mean, why not make it a more bullet proof version of Amamzon’s “one click” model?
January 26th, 2006 at 7:29 am
bugs says:
sounds like a good way to spread germs.
January 26th, 2006 at 7:34 am
Y. D. says:
Jimmy Neutron, please read http://biblelight.net/seal.htm for more on the Mark of the Beast.
January 26th, 2006 at 8:08 am
Aaron says:
How many people touch this thing? These fingerprint scanners are going to end up spreading viruses like the flu. Like those self-swipe credit card reader things. Think of how many people have touched that before you and after you. Gross.
January 26th, 2006 at 8:25 am
Derrick says:
So, Aaron, I take it you never touch anything outside of your house or vehicle without something covering your hands? Like, for instance, the doors to get into a store or public place of some sort.
Do you wash your hands 93280234930 times a day, too?
January 26th, 2006 at 8:53 am
John says:
So - after your fingerprint information is stolen, how do you get new fingerprint information? Similar to what you do when your password is cracked….you change it. After your fingerprint (or any other biometric data) is stolen….how do you change it?
January 26th, 2006 at 10:22 am
Ontario Emperor says:
Stephanie Schuckers’ company, NexID Biometrics, is discussed here (with links to other sources). And yes, she’s involved in a company that claims to detect perspiration.
January 26th, 2006 at 10:40 am
timery says:
i have patented the word and concept of “patent.” implosion pending. . .
January 26th, 2006 at 11:04 am
timery says:
i have patented the word and concept of “patent.” singularizing implosion pending. . .
January 26th, 2006 at 11:05 am
FPGuy says:
There is a lot of misinformation being spread around here. I work in the computer industry and have first-hand experience integrating fingerprint sensorss into our existing products. Please allow me to clear a few things up.
First of all, the play-dough hack only works for OPTICAL fingerprint sensors. Since about 1998 the industry has moved on to capacitive sensors. To learn more about this technology, please visit the web pages of some of the leading fingerprint sensor suppliers.
http://www.authentec.com/getpage.cfm?sectionID=75
http://www.upek.com/products/technology/active.asp
http://www.validityinc.com/technology.html
Second, the majority of sensors being used today are “swipe” sensors, not area sensors (swipe sensors are smaller, and thus less expensive). The swiping motion smears the fingerprint on the surface of the sensor, so there is no residual fingerprint to lift. And, even if you could lift a print, making a play-dough finger with that print will not work, as explaind in my first point.
Third, the fingerprint software does not record an image of the fingerprint. Rather, it looks for very small details in the fingerprint, then creates a geometric pattern based on the locations of those detials. This pattern becomes a template to which subsequent fingerprint swipes are compaired. The templates themselves are only a few Kb in size, so there is no way they hold enough data to reproduce the actual fingerprint. Please see this article for more on creating fingerprint teamplates:
http://www.upek.com/products/technology/perfectmatch.asp
Fourth, (this is a little bit gross) if the authorized finger is cut off the owner’s had, it will only work for 15 miutes. After that time, it no longer has the same electrical properties as a live finger will will cease working on the fingerprint sensor. (It becomes as effective as a play-dough finger.)
In conclusion, fingeprint technology works, it’s secure, it’s cost-effective, and it’s easy to use. Fingerpint will be the death of passwords. Do you like typing passwords all the time? I haven’t typed a password on my computer in over 2 years. People often forget their passwords, but they never forget their finger. Once you use one, you won’t want to go back.
January 26th, 2006 at 11:58 am
Anon. E. Mouse says:
What about chopping dead people’s or homeless people’s fingers off, pulling the bone out, and making a finger “glove” to fit over your real finger? Would that work?
January 26th, 2006 at 12:13 pm
Anon. E. Mouse says:
Or what if you find a finger in your Wendy’s Chili? Can you use that?
January 26th, 2006 at 12:17 pm
Alice says:
gross!
January 26th, 2006 at 12:23 pm
T.Y says:
You guys are bad, you don’t realise what your doing, every day you surrender more private infromation in order to protect yourself when really all your doing is giving them more things to use, keep it simple keep it clean, you used to be able to change state and start a new life, nowadays you go for a drive get lost and buy some food, you don’t know where you are but the gov does, you think your safe but your not, your under constant observation, and its getting out of control, I’ve been mugged for cash, and i hated it but whats worse is buying a pizza in washington and being followed for almost 5 hours by a black merc. they say your safe but your not, i’m not paranoid, i’ve been watched. fortunatly the underground is real, scary but real. i konw i sound nuts but i ask you for one thing, keep your self private.
The more you give them the more they own you.
January 26th, 2006 at 1:09 pm
Zilla says:
All Your Fingerprints Are Belong To Us.
January 26th, 2006 at 2:00 pm
Bob says:
I have worked in the Biometrics Business for 13 years, and actually raised $40M to create a fingerprint sensor. I realize I’m going beneath myself now to respond to all the children on this geek site. Some points of clarification for the unwise:
1) Most of the low cost scanners in the market can be fooled with play-doh, latex, gelatin or wood glue.
2) It is far more difficult to fool the swipe sensors, and with swipe sensors no latent print is left behind
3) The scanner DOES capture a fingerprint image - the backend software then extracts minutiae and stores an easily searchable template. Some studies have shown that you can create a fingerprint from a template file
4) Most systems employ Multi-Factoral authentication - making the faking of a fingerprint useless unless you know one or two other things
5) There are NO health issues that have been proven - although americans are very adept at buying lots of anti-septics that have been also proven to have no beneficial result over normal soap and water - so this is just fear mongering
6) High end scanners - cost more - and have more features, like Infra-Red or other spectral bands (Optical) to detect blood. Or use live movement in the finger - to detect pulse. Some use RF signatures and dialectric constants.
7) To show a fingerprint sensor can be fooled and that in doing so the whole system is compromized is stupid. Has anyone ever blamed a keyboard for giving away a password. Again - think multi-factoral and think of the application - is it convience or security, or is it just convient security.
January 26th, 2006 at 2:31 pm
Bob says:
I have worked in the Biometrics Business for 13 years, and actually raised $40M to create a fingerprint sensor. I realize I’m going beneath myself now to respond to all the children on this geek site. Some points of clarification for the unwise:
1) Most of the low cost scanners in the market can be fooled with play-doh, latex, gelatin or wood glue.
2) It is far more difficult to fool the swipe sensors, and with swipe sensors no latent print is left behind
3) The scanner DOES capture a fingerprint image - the backend software then extracts minutiae and stores an easily searchable template. Some studies have shown that you can create a fingerprint from a template file
4) Most systems employ Multi-Factoral authentication - making the faking of a fingerprint useless unless you know one or two other things
5) There are NO health issues that have been proven - although americans are very adept at buying lots of anti-septics that have been also proven to have no beneficial result over normal soap and water - so this is just fear mongering
6) High end scanners - cost more - and have more features, like Infra-Red or other spectral bands (Optical) to detect blood. Or use live movement in the finger - to detect pulse. Some use RF signatures and dialectric constants.
7) To show a fingerprint sensor can be fooled and that in doing so the whole system is compromized is stupid. Has anyone ever blamed a keyboard for giving away a password. Again - think multi-factoral and think of the application - is it convience or security, or is it just convient security.
January 26th, 2006 at 2:32 pm
Cool Guy says:
Hey, umm, number 27, uhh, what conversation are you in, because I don’t think it’s this one. If you want to talk about that stuff then go to your anarchist punk friends. (I make the bold assumption that you have friends) Everyone else, I think this is probably a possible thing to do but definitely not worth the trouble because there are much easier and lucrative dishonest things to do out there.
January 26th, 2006 at 8:13 pm
estigmat says:
I´ve been reading your statements and let me tell you that you are all crazy. First, security companies never create a 100% secure system because they would run out of work. Second, the database that you are all so affraid of will be so big that they will lose track of a lot of info. Third, the play-doh finger would not do the trick bur try melting a barbie into a fingerprint mold and make it really thin, then glue it to you finger a use it for some hours, it will be the same temperature and humidity as your own body. Fourth, if you can steal the fingerprint from the machine without nobody noticing that then you can also copy the phone number just by looking at it. Fifth if you think that they will put that to work in everyplace, YOU ARE WRONG. Money will always be money. Half of America dosen’t has a bank account. Europe will not implement that and if you dont want to use it just go around the corner. If you want to steal from someone just try but then when you get caught please tell everybody that you tried to buy a pack of cigarretes with a fake finger, they will make your life really funny in jail.
January 27th, 2006 at 12:09 pm
Lily says:
You are only anonymous as long as they want you to be. I think the post-911 panacea has garnered more surrender of private information than is necessary. There needs to be a voice of reason here somewhere. If the government enforced all the laws that are ALREADY on the books, we’d all be in jail.
As far as the biometrics: Of course, it will be hacked. It’s only a matter of time. Build a better mousetrap…..
By the same token, it will not be Play-Doh, but a much more insidious method you won’t even see coming.
January 27th, 2006 at 8:10 pm
Jon says:
Which is easier
A.
1. Stealing someones wallet
2. Going to any grocery store and buying items, and paying with stolen credit cards/money (I’ve NEVER been asked to see an ID to check the if credit card is mine, even if its my MOM’S ID, with a girls name on it, even though I’m a guy)
OR
B.
1. Following someone around who you HOPE has enough money for the entire act to be worth while, waiting for them to place their hand on a flat service so you can extract the print with scotch tape (if for some reason store clerks don’t find it a tad strange that you stalking another customer and trying to lift their print). Their hand cannot slide at all when this happens, and hopefully not roll to the side so the print is in perfect condition.
2. When you have the print, which you might not even be able to get, you must then use something to extrude it into a 3 dimensional model. Your print is only in 2 dimensions. In order to do this correctly, you have to repair any smudges in the print, and extrude it into the shape of their finger, which the technology DOES NOT EXIST TO DO, and if it DOES, its so expensive if you had access to this sort of thing you wouldn’t need to be stealing GROCERIES.
3. Then, you would need to make a cast of this, presumably using Play-Dough.
4. Go to some way-side store and hope that you hope uses this obscure technology, which, I’ve never seen one anyway…
5. Use the play-dough print instead of your real hand, and hope the clerk doesn’t ask any questions. Hopefully the finger print will even go through, because your casted print will not have a heartbeat, which is often checked to make sure the print is coming off a living hand. If the clerk catches you, go back to 1.
6. Pay for a couple bucks worth of food, maybe some beer. Big deal. It’s only a few weeks worth of goods until the Victem notices the bogus payments and cancels the service.
Now, if you had taken the credit card… HELLOOOOO E-BAY!!! You could run up thousands of dollars worth of charges by buying cars, computers, drug paraphenelia, and any plethera of items that your heart desired. In webspace, your face is never checked. A clerk can’t ask you to properly identify yourself. All you have to know is their name and adress and have their credit card!
There are so many better scams then finger-print fraud. TRY good old forgery! My friend ran a twenty through his scanner and printed several thousands of dollars worth of bogus bills, all in a few minutes time. The risk was less, the time expended was less, less expertise, less equipment, and best of all, MORE PROFIT/APPLIABILITY. After all, cash is easier to accept at most stores compared to finger print ID. I mean, what the ****. I’ve never seen that in my WHOLE ENTIRE LIFE.
Get a life you paranoid crazies, worry about something useful LIKE THE WAR WE ARE IN! YOU HAVE A SKEWED SENSE OF PRIORITY. GOOD DAY SIRS.
January 29th, 2006 at 12:31 pm
Alice says:
Jon - so well said!
January 30th, 2006 at 7:54 pm
Jacob smith says:
You are all dooshbags
February 4th, 2006 at 4:56 pm
Last Post says:
I am the last poster
February 19th, 2006 at 6:53 pm
hah says:
no your not!!! TOCHE
March 2nd, 2006 at 12:52 am
Daniel Klajnberg says:
I think the solution would be to get people educated.
a simple thing to do is just after the computer reconized your finger, push it down in a sense that the residuos that leave your finger image would get blurry, making it impossible for someone to copy!
April 17th, 2006 at 12:06 pm
william a. lichnerowicz says:
perhaps if we were to do away with mammon altogether…move back to the barter system……we could eliminate alot of headaches and heartaches…….for god has said……you cannot worship god and mammon……perhaps this would be toooo painful for many to eliminate money and currency altogether…….no marks or tracking….as to eliminate fear of the mark of the beast……or is that what money already is..is it trhe root of all evil..or is evil in the root of all mens hearts???…….if seve one another through love and our good name and our word……for without both you have nothing…..we could make this a better world to live in……be compensated for the gifts god has given you by sharing them with others……i.e……..love is the first place to look.
April 30th, 2006 at 4:56 am
william a. lichnerowicz says:
perhaps if we were to do away with mammon altogether…move back to the barter system……we could eliminate alot of headaches and heartaches…….for god has said……you cannot worship god and mammon……perhaps this would be toooo painful for many to eliminate money and currency altogether…….no marks or tracking….as to eliminate fear of the mark of the beast……or is that what money already is..is it trhe root of all evil..or is evil in the root of all mens hearts???…….if we serve one another through love and our good name and our word……for without both you have nothing…..we could make this a better world to live in……be compensated for the gifts god has given you by sharing them with others……i.e……..love is the first place to look.myself i know i have many faults and i am desperately working on them. for love is eternal……and more valuable than all the gold in the world.
April 30th, 2006 at 4:58 am
Spaz says:
You guys don’t know what you’re talking about. I work for the company that makes these things and they are very easy to beat. All you need is a finger and a phone number. I signed up for one of these at Walmart and it works for my REAL finger and my own phone number every time. I don’t see why you need the playdoh.
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Gadgets, Gizmos & Widgets » Blog Archive » Gummy bears and fingerprint locks says:
[…] What if there was a way to fool these systems? Ah, but there is! Not just the threat from gummi bears, but Play Doh as well. And, for really low-tech, it’s fairly easy to make a mold from silly putty and make a fake finger that way. […]
December 9th, 2006 at 6:49 am
Crank full says:
Jon you right on 100% !
December 2nd, 2007 at 4:42 am