Open Office 2.0 Kicks MS Office Around the Block

160 comments to "Open Office 2.0 Kicks MS Office Around the Block"

1. John says:

   Central Scotland Police Force returns to Office.

   Google the above, and then re-read this article

   August 22nd, 2005 at 11:14 pm

2. Alice says:

   I don’t get it.

   August 22nd, 2005 at 11:44 pm

3. justin says:

   I believe he is talking about this article. But it’s talking about Sun’s Star Office, not OOo.

   August 23rd, 2005 at 4:12 am

4. David Johnston says:

   Yeah, he’s talking about StarOffice. Keep in mind, though, that Star Office isn’t free either

   August 23rd, 2005 at 5:31 am

5. rog says:

   Yeah, but will oo20 support that new blogger addin?

   August 23rd, 2005 at 7:13 am

6. John says:

   ALMOST compatible and “showed impressive compatibility” is not good enough when your job depends on your customers’ ability to use the information.

   August 23rd, 2005 at 9:45 am

7. Lockergnome's Tech News Watch says:

   Open Office 2.0 Kicks MS Office Aound the Block

   We’ve been covering Open Office for some time now and are still eagerly waiting the official 2.0 release. Today our pals at PC Mag released their verdict. Shortcut: OpenOffice kicks A$$ and it’s FREE, any questions?! “If you can remember the name of…

   August 23rd, 2005 at 5:12 pm

8. teklord says:

   I can understand this for home use, but is any business really going to embrace “FREE” software like this? Maybe the Mom and Pop business’ will but not the IBM’s and the like. Where would business people go for tech support?

   August 24th, 2005 at 5:28 am

9. Tarball says:

   @teklord

   If people want ‘paid for’ tech support then they can by the next version of StarOffice from Sun which will be based on OpenOffice 2.0

   August 24th, 2005 at 9:01 am

10. NIF says:

    Let’s get it on!

    Today’s dose of NIF - News, Interesting & Funny … It’s Stop the ACLU Thursday

    August 25th, 2005 at 3:16 am

11. MyName says:

    “ALMOST compatible and “showed impressive compatibility” is not good enough when your job depends on your customers’ ability to use the information.

    Comment by John”

    Then you’d better stop putting your information in Word files, Johnny boy. Making your customers pay hundreds of $$ just so they can open up some text file?? You do realize that MS Office is NOT cheap and you’re forcing all your customers to purchase it? You might as well slap a $300 extra charge on their bill (not to mention putting all your/their data in a closed format).

    August 25th, 2005 at 6:15 am

12. Itsme says:

    haha, and the comment about “who’s going to embrace this….not the IBMs and the like..” Go check out what IBM is doing for Open Source these days.

    August 25th, 2005 at 6:17 am

13. Myron says:

    Uh, does PC Mag know you are republishing their whole article. Seems bad manners and probably illegal.

    August 25th, 2005 at 6:22 am

14. Alice says:

    I write for PC Mag from time to time. I have not altered their review and only posted an excerpt that is fuly quoted and linked to. Am I missing something? That’s how the whole blog world works.

    August 25th, 2005 at 8:07 am

15. Alice says:

    Myron - my apologies. I went back and checked, and it looks like I did put the whole review in here which violates my own site policy. We usually do a few paragraphs and I chose text from page two of the Mag review, but it looks like that excerpt is the complete review.

    My apologies. I have removed some text and will make sure we stick to our rules. Yikes. I really thought this was just one page of many.

    Thanks for catching that. –Alice

    August 25th, 2005 at 8:12 am

16. Myron says:

    I’m not well versed in interpretation of “fair use”. This article seems helpful (not sure if I can put links here, google nolo fair use)
    http://www.nolo.com/article.cfm/objectID/C3E49F67-1AA3-4293-9312FE5C119B5806/310/276/240/ART/

    I still don’t think you’re in the clear. Your quoting the majority of the article and not providing any additional content yourself. Attribution is not a free pass.

    August 25th, 2005 at 9:25 am

17. Alice says:

    Thanks Myron. I will make sure we get this right. We certainly don’t want to mess up with PC mag or anyone. I chopped it down to two paragraphs.

    August 25th, 2005 at 10:26 am

18. Andrew says:

    I have been using openoffice.org under linux now for about a year. It has been great, and in many ways outperforms word. I do agree, though, with others that have posted here about the requirements of business and using MS Word. I currently work in the legal field. For drafting, I prefer Word, but many firms require every document be drafted on Word Perfect. OpenOffice just doesn’t fit into the equation. While largely a superior program since it can do everything available in both MS Word and Word Perfect, its reliance on a different file extension, and different formatting makes it operate like any other word processor. If you want something for your business, and file types aren’t an issue, go for OpenOffice. If you want something for personal use to avoid purchasing any other proprietary software, get OpenOffice. Just remeber, you are stuck with either M$ Word or Word Perfect. They won’t ever go away.

    August 25th, 2005 at 11:10 am

19. Alice says:

    Note: we just updated this piece with a complete hand-on review from David Johnston. I hope you will give it a read and thank him for his time spent on this. I thought he gave it a great write-up and covered all the issues. Way to go David!!!

    August 28th, 2005 at 11:22 am

20. Lockergnome's Tech News Watch says:

    Hands-On Review of OpenOffice 2.0

    We asked our contributing writer David Johnston to do a full review of OpenOffice 2.0. He has been a longtime user of the product (and in fact an earlier version lost some of his important data.) In the meantime, we pointed to a review that PC Magazine…

    August 28th, 2005 at 12:14 pm

21. Anthony says:

    What about the integration with the Microsoft Server System, such as Sharepoint, Live Communications Server, and the others? Does Open Office have this component? No, and until it does, or there is an open source equivilent, there is no reason for an enterprise to make the move from Microsoft to open source.

    August 28th, 2005 at 1:59 pm

22. Addys says:

    So lets see:

    - You have “used the product religiously for years”
    - At home you used the Lotus suite
    - You “rarely ever used” MS Office

    so I guess that uniquely qualifies you to provide a balanced and unbiased point of view for an objective comparison, right?
    Sheesh.

    August 28th, 2005 at 2:30 pm

23. myname2 says:

    “ALMOST compatible and “showed impressive compatibility” is not good enough when your job depends on your customers’ ability to use the information.

    Comment by John”

    Then you’d better stop putting your information in Word files, Johnny boy. Making your customers pay hundreds of $$ just so they can open up some text file?? You do realize that MS Office is NOT cheap and you’re forcing all your customers to purchase it? You might as well slap a $300 extra charge on their bill (not to mention putting all your/their data in a closed format).

    Comment by MyName — August 25, 2005 @ 6:15 am

    ——–

    every business i’ve worked with already has and uses ms word. don’t worry about “forcing all your customers to purchase it”. trust me on this, most of your customers already have it.

    a tip to all you open office users — don’t write your resume in open office and save it as a ms office file without DOUBLE CHECKING that it opens correctly in ms office.

    i’m responsible for hiring programmers and i expect them to e-mail their resumes in ms word format. when some asshat sends it to me in some other format, do you think i take the time to go and download the right software? no, i look at the next one. we throw away resumes for spelling mistakes. what in the world makes these clowns think we’re gonna go out of our way for them?

    even when they do save it in ms word format, sometimes it shows up totally wrong. we don’t want those clowns to be on our team and have them e-mail our customers documents that don’t show up right.

    i would give open office a 10 out of 10 for features, hands down. but, i would give them a 1 out of 10 overall because a vast majority of businesses use ms word.

    would you rather sign-up for a community website that has great features but only 5 users or one that doesn’t have as many features but millions of users?

    well, ms word does have all the essential features plus the millions of users. the network effect makes ms word the right choice for business purposes.

    August 28th, 2005 at 3:33 pm

24. regeya says:

    myname2, you’re an asshat, and I’ll tell you why.

    I work for a newspaper. Sometimes we get Word documents and are told that they’re “camera ready.” Let me explain why it’s not, and why we’d rather throw away a customer’s money than use it.

    You see, just because someone has MS Office, and just because they used Windows, doesn’t mean they’ve used the same version, and have used a font from the same designer, as what we have. For example, there are numerous examples of Helvetica. Ditto, in fact, for Arial, Times New Roman (believe it or not) and what are considered “standard” fonts.

    So, when some asshat sends us a Word document as “camera ready”, 9 times out of 10 it doesn’t work.

    If you want portable documents, use PDF–or don’t insist on portable documents. It’s that simple.

    Only asshats insist on Word documents written on totally stock Windows machines.

    August 28th, 2005 at 4:10 pm

25. mjp says:

    myname2 wrote:
    “i’m responsible for hiring programmers and i expect them to e-mail their resumes in ms word format. when some asshat sends it to me in some other format, do you think i take the time to go and download the right software?”

    ————–

    What version of MS Office are we talking about here? I have users with Word 97, Word 2000, Word 2003, and Word XP. None of the later MS Words are backwards compatible - especially with graphics and frame support.

    The only way to ensure MS Word compatibility is to force every one to use exactly the same version. And let’s not talk about Mac compatibility.

    I would neve work with a company so clueless as to require everyone submit resumes in MS word and then trash those that they can’t read - as though it wasn’t Microsoft’s fault. Do you plan to edit submitted resumes? If not, why do you require an editable format? Ever heard of PDF?

    MS Word format isn’t a standard you can rely upon - even Microsoft can’t make it work.

    Use PDF to distribute read-only documents. For collaborative documents, use MS Word, if you want, but there are incompatibilities between all flavors of Word files, whether generated by MS Word or OOo.

    August 28th, 2005 at 4:24 pm

26. myname2 says:

    “Do you plan to edit submitted resumes? If not, why do you require an editable format? Ever heard of PDF?”

    i’m sorry mjp, but requiring applicants to submit pdf’s is the stupidest idea i’ve ever heard of. and yes, we trash all resumes we can’t read. in fact, all of the companies i’ve worked for trash the resumes they can’t read. resumes get trashed for all kinds of reasons — we can’t go through them all. besides, i’m comparing MS WORD AND OPEN OFFICE, NOT MS WORD AND PDF.

    and regeya, business documents usually never have to be “photo-ready”. they have to show up right. when they do, we use pdf, of course.

    take a look at one example:

    Shell’s 2nd Quarter Results

    why do you think shell uses pdf and ms office formats? would it make any sense for them to post their q2 results in pdf and open office format? of course not, no one would be able to open them unless they go through the trouble of downloading open office first.

    mjp, you said that “MS Word format isn’t a standard you can rely upon - even Microsoft can’t make it work.” apparently, it’s reliable enough for shell and well over 90% of other businesses that need to quickly, and easily create, edit, and share documents.

    mjp, you also asked, “What version of MS Office are we talking about here? I have users with Word 97, Word 2000, Word 2003, and Word XP. None of the later MS Words are backwards compatible - especially with graphics and frame support.”

    that’s right. different versions of office are not 100% backwards compatible. i’m comparing ms word and open office, NOT MS WORD AND PDF. open office documents that have a lot of graphics and frame support aren’t adequately compatible with any version of ms office.

    now, one last time, i’m comparing MS WORD AND OPEN OFFICE, NOT MS WORD AND PDF.

    also, i said that open office has great features — a 10. but it still sucks because no one else uses it. the day when 90% of businesses begin using open office, or the day when open office makes their documents 100% compatible (graphics, frames, macros, etc.) with word, i’ll say that open office is good for business. until that day, open office is not ready for business use.

    August 28th, 2005 at 4:59 pm

27. Chris says:

    “I would neve work with a company so clueless as to require everyone submit resumes in MS word and then trash those that they can’t read - as though it wasn’t Microsoft’s fault.”

    Have a good time looking for a job…..you won’t be finding one very easily. Here’s the deal: you respond to the add based upon their requirements, not yours. If you miss the opportunity of a lifetime because you’re being stupid about refusing to use MS Word, you’re the clueless one.

    August 28th, 2005 at 5:22 pm

28. Mistawho says:

    Obviously the ones blasting myname2 have very limited experience in the business world. I’ve been employed for hundreds of temporary jobs based on networking and I’ve only encountered a small fraction of those who *don’t* require your resume to be submitted in MS Word format online. If you can’t conform to the standard, then you can conform to low-paying jobs. Enjoy.

    August 28th, 2005 at 5:35 pm

29. Richard says:

    IMHO, OpenOffice does a good job opening simple formats, but for *anything* complicated - a spreadsheet, a thesis, or a web interface - you always have to wrestle with compatibility. That means you must have more than one version and type of software often. I made a calendar of class assignments for my students this morning, and used Outlook, Sunbird, and Yahoo calendars to make sure it was sufficiently compatible. Sucks but it is reality these days.

    What I’m really hoping is that OpenOffice 2.0 has fixed the table bug where too much text in a cell simply disappears instead of flowing to the next page. If yes, I might just switch back to it. As is, I keep WordPerfect for when I need some macro capabilities, StarOffice for lots of straightforward wordprocessing, and Word because you have to have it.

    Jut my $2

    Finally, as for the tech support missing from OpenOffice, that’s true. However, my experiences with Earthlink, Gateway, and Palm have taught me to never contact tech support unless the computer is bleeding profusely. These days, *most* tech support (there are exceptions) is really nothing more than a telemarketer with access to Google.

    August 28th, 2005 at 6:18 pm

30. anon says:

    typo in the last paragraph?

    Impress is the one place where OpenOffice could use the most improvement. I would highly recommend you stick with -*Excel*- unless you don’t need MS’s built-in clip art or their well-made design backgrounds.

    I think that “Excel” is proably supposed to be “Impress”.

    I am so smart.

    August 28th, 2005 at 9:41 pm

31. ceejayoz says:

    Wow, what a bizzare title for this review…

    “Another nice thing about OpenOffice is that it is actually a complete office suite.”

    Hmm, if only Microsoft made one too!

    The review covers three apps - Writer, Impress, and Calc.

    The verdict? Writer is pretty good, Powerpoint beats Impress, and he “stays away from Impress”.

    Yeah, that’s a glowing review.

    August 28th, 2005 at 10:07 pm

32. Fred Monroe says:

    Impress sucks for presentations. Powerpoint sucks for presentations. If you really want to impress people and stand out. the only option is to use Keynote. Serriously, you can not make a sucky product better by coppying the interface of a product just as sucky.

    August 28th, 2005 at 10:08 pm

33. anon says:

    Anyone encouraging, let alone insisting, on sending MS Word documents outside a single organisation have themselves to blame when they get bitten.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/3154479.stm

    A resume sent by email should be in plain text inside the email - none of this “I can’t read your document” confusion no matter who you’re dealing with. With an optional link to a nice plain HTML/XHTML website for a prettily printable current version.

    Naturally enough, Openoffice.org produces much nicer HTML than MS Word ever has.

    August 28th, 2005 at 10:46 pm

34. Mirko says:

    Moreover Math saves directly as MathML, that you can upload on the web.

    August 28th, 2005 at 10:52 pm

35. Paul H. says:

    “i’m responsible for hiring programmers and i expect them to e-mail their resumes in ms word format. when some asshat sends it to me in some other format, do you think i take the time to go and download the right software? no, i look at the next one”.

    I applaud the policy of throwing out the resumés with the spelling mistakes, but if it was my company and I found that the brightest and most talented programmers were not being interviewed - because some clown was throwing out resumés emailed in certain industry or open standard formats - I’d be very displeased indeed.

    “i’m sorry mjp, but requiring applicants to submit pdf’s is the stupidest idea i’ve ever heard of”.

    Requiring them to, yes - but reading them if that is how they are sent is neither difficult nor stupid. It may be that you inform your applicants that their resumés must be presented in MS Word format before they send them - but that is not a very smart move either. It sends a message guaranteed to turn off some of the best programmers. If you don’t need or want the best though, fair enough.

    August 28th, 2005 at 11:17 pm

36. Gippa says:

    I think MS Office is superior to any openoffice product, including word processing. I did a couple of books: I started with OpenOffice Writer, but I suddently had to switch to M$ Word.

    For medium user, OpenOffice is OK: I saw many letters or documents of *large* companies (int’l telco and banks) written in Word and presentations that would have been great in Impress. OOo will be enough for 90% of the time, but for financial apps and for publishing.

    I don’t think OpenOffice sucks, but MS Office is out since long now: it’s a matter of time and OOo will be great

    Oh, BTW: I am an OOo user from long time being, and Linux user from kernel 0.99p…

    August 28th, 2005 at 11:31 pm

37. dave says:

    A few things, which I just can’t let slip by:

    1) Could this mag have chosen a *worse* review of OpenOffice? Come on! The suite is fantastic, and you choose the writing of some chump who can’t even tell the difference between excel and powerpoint (apparently, according to his last paragraph), and who bases his impression of Impress on whether or not there is a bucketload of cruddy clipart (which is annoying in any presentation, mind you) — which he could just get for free of any number of websites, or (gosh, mickey!) actually take the time to create himself in some other freeware product like The Gimp or Inkscape? I’m sorry, but I was at least expecting an inormed opinion.

    2) OpenOffice has been ready for the primetime for ages. I’ve released it over our corporate here since 1.1.2, largely to save on the excruciating cost of M$ office, as well as providing a consistent interface for the linux and windows users. It’s a good product, which is still in active development. Every release kicks more ass, and for every feature you can name that is apparently missing, I can tell you of a counter-feature that M$ office should have had (or I can just point to the place where M$ should have put it, since it’s more logical, and the OO guys put it there to help their users). The feedback I’ve had has been both from people who came from an M$ office background, and others who have never even used a pc before — everyone has glowing praise.

    3) Support… I have one word: “forums”. Have you ever actually tried to get support out of M$? I have. What a waste of time. But with searchable, FREE forums (because a lot of the M$ information out there follows the pay-for-play motto), I can find solutions to problems. Not like I need it often, but still…

    4) Active development. I will always back a team who are doing active, valuable work on a product. Not rehashing the same crap with glitzy menus. Not just switching the core to .NET before it’s time. No, actual useful development. A programming team who takes into consideration the needs of their users, because the need to make money isn’t the foremost concept in their minds.

    5) An asshat who expects his potential programmers to submit their CV’s in word format needs to check his bearings. A decent programmer would have done it either in a completely self-describing document like a PDF, or in the next best thing — html, with proper css styling. It’s not a big thing to learn a little html and css if you expect to land a job as a programmer.

    If anyone has actually read this far, and still wonders whether to pay the M$ tax or go the free route — I would say, go to openoffice.org and make up your own mind. Don’t let people give you a misaligned negative view on a product which has, and still is, proving itself in the field.

    August 28th, 2005 at 11:37 pm

38. Chuck says:

    I seem to remember MS saying that they were going to move to an open XML based document format (possibly ODF).

    If this is so, and they dont screw it up (like they did HTML, etc.) then hopefully it will mean great compatibility between office apps.

    August 28th, 2005 at 11:40 pm

39. johannes rexx says:

    So American businesses have standardized on an expensive, licensed, insecure, proprietary, runs-on-Windows-only product called MSWord and don’t think there’s anything wrong with supporting a heinous, unethical, monster of a monopoly that was convicted of anti-trust violations but not punished monetarily.

    Don’t Americans have balls anymore? Do you all just lay down and say “MS is the standard so suck it up and submit your resume in MSWORD or you can’t work here?” WTF is with that? Do you also tolerate lying slime balls who invade foreign countries based on lies and vote them back for a second term? Do you also tolerate religious nut cases who call out for the assassination of foreign president in Venezuela?

    ….. oh …. wait …. yes you don’t have any balls and you did vote for Bush and you do believe in an all powerful man in the sky that can send you to hell and he loves you. No wonder we’re stuck with Gates and Bush and Robertson!

    ASSHATS!

    August 28th, 2005 at 11:59 pm

40. John says:

    For people who use office to write large report, about more then 200 pages, and use a lot of graphs and illustrations, would agree with me in the fact that both offices have similar irritating bugs! I am really disappointed to find out after excessive use of every office distro I could find; they all had similar and dissimilar irritating bugs.

    I hope one day a good coding team would create a office suite which does what it should. I acknowledge that a project like an office suite is so complex that it is very hard to code without errors and bugs.

    August 29th, 2005 at 12:02 am

41. prometheas says:

    Awful review, really. I can’t believe people get paid to write insignificant reviews… poorly. I’m happy for the Writer (he gets to pay his rent, I suppose) but disappointed with whoever thought this thing was worth publishing.

    I love OpenOffice and, yes, it is a wonderful stand-in for MS Office, at least for Writer and Calc. I must confess I’ve never even looked at Impress because I have Keynote. If you find yourself asking why that is, you clearly haven’t used Keynote.

    Writer
    =====

    Writer is definitely better than Word. I pass Writer files back and forth to people using Word, and haven’t run into any problems in the last year and a half of usage. I’m a pretty straight-shooter when it comes to layout, text flow, and table structures in my word processing documents (otherwise, I use InDesign, which is actually designed to properly handle that stuff). In any case, when it comes to interoperability of passing files back and forth, your mileage may indeed vary.

    I don’t miss the grammar checker, though I grant that many people would.

    Please, myname2, don’t freak out; using the OpenOffice format for business may actually be a better idea than you may currently realize, once the file format gets adopted by ISO… heck, it may even be required some day for ISO certification (100% compatible or not).

    Calc
    ====

    Calc is OK, but I don’t use spreadsheets much… and when I do, it’s really just tabular data that may include some simple equation cells; no macros, no graphs.

    Generally speaking, I have no difficulty accepting recommendations of Excel over Calc… the Mac version of Office makes some particularly lovely graphics.

    I can, however, offer this bit of insight: Calc handles CSV exports much, much, MUCH better and more reliably than Excel. Text encodings, alternate delimiter characters, and simple output reliability (I have to massage incoming Excel documents bound for database imports several times monthly). If you’re having trouble exporting data to some plain-text character-delimited format, please save your sanity and open the .xls file in Calc to manage the export.

    Conclusion
    =========

    When it comes down to business, you’re usually NOT the one deciding what Office software package you need to use; that’d be your boss. If you ARE that person that decides such things, and you have some nerve, do give OpenOffice a shot at working with a sampling of your existing business files. I do believe you’ll be pleasantly impressed.

    August 29th, 2005 at 12:12 am

42. Alice says:

    I want to jump in here. This review was not written for IT heads (like myself in my day job) but for people who are buying new PCs and weighing out the cost of MS Office which can be more than the PC itself, with an open source solution.

    David has gone through what to expect and what to avoid, and no one said this was an enterprise solution, but for the average Joe at home, this is worth a download.

    August 29th, 2005 at 12:28 am

43. RealNitro says:

    OpenOffice.org Draw is great for creating posters/notices. It’s like a really simplified version of MS Publisher, and it fits my needs perfectly. Don’t use a word processor if you want to do some simple lay-out, use Draw.

    August 29th, 2005 at 12:46 am

44. Bill says:

    One program that I consider essential to the MS Office suite (although not part of the bundled editions) is Visio. Although not originally a MS product, I feel that MS have done a good job on making it work well with other office applications. I have used open office for some time now, and I have to say that in some situations I prefer it to MS Word. However, Draw is nothing compared to Visio. I have tried to find an open source alternative that even comes remotely close to matching Visio’s ease of use.

    This is a statement rather than criticism of OO. I believe Visio is a program that MS have really done well and will be hard to beat. I would be interested to know if anyone has found an open source alternative though.

    August 29th, 2005 at 12:58 am

45. asdfhero says:

    Yeah, MS has done a real good job buying Visio. They should get an award.

    August 29th, 2005 at 1:11 am

46. vivek says:

    Hmm I’m using OO since last 2+ yrs for docs and I find it quite useful and don’t miss MS-OFFICE at all OO rocks! Btw good artical.

    August 29th, 2005 at 1:17 am

47. Daniel says:

    OpenOffice is a great aplication however i have to stick with ms word until the autocorrect will be available for my language as well. .. so i’ll probably move to OpenOffice by the end of the year. I see no real progress between MS Word 2000 and 2003 for instance. However OpenOffice gets better and better.

    August 29th, 2005 at 1:18 am

48. цуко says:

    Первый нах!

    August 29th, 2005 at 2:17 am

49. Michael says:

    What a probing review you have done here… you used the word processor some… you tried out the other applications… you don’t own a copy of MS office… and you declare Open Office kicks, and yourself some kind of expert. pretty lame.

    August 29th, 2005 at 2:27 am

50. Vit says:

    Open Office 1.x is not really usable but Open Office 2 is a completely different story. They should get it out of beta as soon as practically possible

    August 29th, 2005 at 2:36 am

51. Axuman says:

    OO and business.

    I can´t see why arquing about compatibility issues between OO and MS Word.

    Becouse if you use .doc or .dot format - you got yourself a security hole in your documents. So why not use .rtf format. This format is fully supported by MS Word and OO Write.

    I have never had any problems with .rtf format.

    I have been MS Word user over a decade and nowadays i use OO in my own SOHO environment and in office (I work in IT-house appx. 3000 employees) we use MS Office 2003. I work mostly at home and send daily basis OO attachments to my work mates and our customers.

    And when sendin data to our customers i use mainly .pdf format becouse i want my data to be as untouchable as it can be.

    (sorry about bad english - my fingers are language blind mode…)

    A from Fin

    August 29th, 2005 at 2:44 am

52. jernst says:

    myname2 wrote:
    “i’m responsible for hiring programmers and i expect them to e-mail their resumes in ms word format. when some asshat sends it to me in some other format, do you think i take the time to go and download the right software?”

    Are you kidding ? In my software company we are almost trashing every resume that comes in ms word format. Resumes come in pdf or we don’t bother looking at them (we look at them but they are often bad resumes by the way). Of course the preffered and easiest way to do it is to use OpenOffice and click on the pdf export button.

    August 29th, 2005 at 2:47 am

53. Andi says:

    @Chuck:
    Yes, MS will move to an XML format, however “open” it is DEFINITELY NOT!
    MS is going to XML in order to create the illusion of an open format in (very ill-informed) management circles, however the informed tech user knows that they’ve been submitting patents on their new format. Thus now you not only have the big hurdle of an undocumented binary format as with .doc (XML is a *container format*, you can put whatever binary crap you can come up with inside!), you probably also have the insurmountable hurdle of expensive or even unlicensable patents on this format, and, as if this weren’t enough already, another insurmountable obstacle in the form of encrypted Digital Restrictions Management (DRM) on Microsoft office documents.

    In other words, they’re (ab)using the generally open XML container format to make it appear as if they’re open and friendly, yet their new format is now at least three times as bad as before, thus probably making it fully impossible for OpenOffice to establish compatibility with the future format, too.

    There are several reports on the internet (c.f. Google) that detail this development.

    You might want to go tell this to everyone, since it appears you completely fell for Microsoft’s tactics, and thus I assume many other people make the same mistaken assumptions.

    August 29th, 2005 at 2:48 am

54. jernst says:

    Bill wrote:
    “One program that I consider essential to the MS Office suite (although not part of the bundled editions) is Visio. Although not originally a MS product, I feel that MS have done a good job on making it work well with other office applications. I have used open office for some time now, and I have to say that in some situations I prefer it to MS Word. However, Draw is nothing compared to Visio. I have tried to find an open source alternative that even comes remotely close to matching Visio’s ease of use.”

    Dia is right here for you:
    http://www.gnome.org/projects/dia/

    August 29th, 2005 at 2:49 am

55. Faisal says:

    What a pathetic review:

    “OpenOffice has added a program to compete with Access called Base as well as a few others like Math which allows you to write out mathematical equations in a word processor-like environment and Draw which is a drawing program. I’ve personally never used these new programs seriously, but from the looks of it they could all be useful except for Draw. I haven’t yet been able to discern what exactly you’re supposed to be able to do with it that warrants its existence.”

    I find myself using MS Access all the time and it’s the application I use the most in the MS Office suite. It’s a shame that the author dedicated just 55 letters to describe such an important component of an office suite, and passes off “Draw” as useless stating “I haven’t yet been able to discern what exactly you’re supposed to be able to do with it”.

    Just because you don’t find a use for a program it doesn’t mean nobody else will. Same goes for the author saying Openoffice is better than MS Office because he thinks Writer is better than MS Word (Which is just one of the 9+ applications of the MS office suite)

    I could go on about the blunders committed by the author but I’ve got more useful things to do.

    *Laughs at the angry guy looking for programmers

    August 29th, 2005 at 3:32 am

56. birger says:

    We ae currently using both OpenOffice and MS Office in our company.

    Our basic rule is that it is not allowed to send out any other format than PDF. The reason is to secure our property and to ensure the customers security. PDF is not easily opied from and PDF does not have a history with macro viruses.

    If one chooses a 100% MS solution then integration works fairly well, but then you WILL pay the licencing hell. If you choose an Open Source solution, you need to make sure yourself, or by a consultant, that the system fits your needs.

    Professional support can be bought for every solution out there. No difference in that, but have anyone ever tried to get some support from Microsoft? And what is their experience with that support? My own expereince is that we have never needed MS Support. We have never needed any Oo support either. Ever.

    If the standard you put down is “Everything has to work with MS Office” then go MS Office.

    If you say “All these tasks has to be handled in an efficient and secure manner” then take a look at the competition. You will be plesantly suprised if you give OpenSource a fair chance.

    birger….

    August 29th, 2005 at 3:37 am

57. Faisal says:

    I forgot to mention that the author compared the Openoffice 2 beta (released August 2005) to MS Office XP (released more than 4 years ago).

    If that’s the case and the review was for “the average PC buyer”, I can get Office XP Standard for $134, and the Office 2003 Student and teacher edition for $119 (both from amazon.com) instead of $400 as stated by Alice.

    August 29th, 2005 at 3:58 am

58. Dave Lane says:

    Just for the record, we hire developers, and we tend to have a low opinion of any prospective employee who sends a CV in MS DOC format, although we usually send a courteous message explaining why. We don’t have a single MS Office license, and why should we have to have one?! MS are a company who don’t do business in a way we find palatable, so we choose not to contribute to their criminally abusive monopoly (note, we don’t run Windows either).

    We are an ethical business that works with open source software, and we’re the guys quietly takin’ businesses like the one myname2 describes to the cleaner. We produce better, open standards compliant web apps and software at a lower cost than our MS enslaved competitors, with a higher profit to boot because we have lower costs building on open source software. To businesses like the one myname2 represents: whatever. You’re irrelevant. Bye bye.

    August 29th, 2005 at 4:01 am

59. Shaun says:

    I have been using OOo for going on three years now. The compatibility is great, and improving. Probably the most powerful thing about OOo is PDF and standards. I’ve noticed that is a hidden feature in OOo 2.0 in that if you have a form in a document and you export it to PDF, the form goes through too. I hope one day this will be expoited! PDF creation is also considerably faster in OOo than in Word with Adobe Proffessional. 15 seconds in OpenOffice compared to almost 5 minutes in Word and Adobe. This was a document with almost 60 pages of text an screenshots. Not only is OOo faster, it is also producing Bookmarks in the PDFs properly, unlike the Word/Adboe combi.
    OpenOffice 2.0 is considerably better than 1.1, so much so I’m using it more than 1.1.

    August 29th, 2005 at 4:24 am

60. gerd says:

    2.0 is a giant leap compared to 1.1.5. But I am more curious about the future. It is sure that most arguments that prevented you to use OO.org can now be dropped. And we can even expect more. OO.org is now ready for me, I use the development versions for month since they were far superiour to 1.1.5

    August 29th, 2005 at 4:49 am

61. Sebastian says:

    No thanks Microsoft Office has hidden data in files that have been created: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/3154479.stm Yes that’s right hidden data, such as personal data that you do not want other people to get hold of.

    Open Office’s word processing program is indeed much better than Word.

    Abiword is a free open source word processing program that is rather good and very much like Word: http://www.abisource.com

    Corel’s Office Suite is supposed to be better than Microsoft Office, but I have not used it. http://www.corel.com

    August 29th, 2005 at 5:17 am

62. JP says:

    Base unfortunately sucks a lot when compared to MS Access. Ever tried to create a form to update a many-to-many relation in OpenOffice Base? It is impossible. Apart from crashing every other minute there are tons of features still missing in order to make it even remotely useful. Bad for people like me who have clients who want a solution now. I have to tell them Windows+MS Access is the only way to go right now.

    August 29th, 2005 at 6:06 am

63. Chris Meisenzahl says:

    Great info, thanks!

    I’ve been using an older version, I need to get 2.0.

    Chris
    http://amateureconblog.blogspot.com/

    August 29th, 2005 at 6:14 am

64. Jeremy says:

    “Here’s the deal: you respond to the add based upon their requirements, not yours. If you miss the opportunity of a lifetime because you’re being stupid about refusing to use MS Word, you’re the clueless one.” — Chris

    “The best way to predict the future is invent it” — Alan Kay

    If you’re expecting your programmers to begin conforming to arbitrary, tired, and technically inferior standards from day -14 (i.e. 2 weeks before hire), then please forgive me, but it sounds like “the opportunity of a lifetime,” is getting off on the wrong foot.

    I’m a programmer, and a pretty good one. Daily, other programmers in the office come to me for help and 95% of the time I give them the answer or help them find it quickly, which is why they keep coming back.

    I also feel I’m a pretty good communicator, despite avoiding proprietary formats.

    I’m sure you get a lot of resumes and need ways to quickly filter them, but requiring MS-Word is a silly way to rule someone out.

    Maybe I’m naive, but I thought the whole point of the resume/interview/hire process was to get the best person for the job. A lot of passionate programmers avoid Microsoft products like the plague. If someone is passionate they try hard, and if someone tries hard at something, they tend to be good. Very good.

    You’re probably filtering out some very good programmers by starting with MS Word. You’ve certainly filtered out this one…

    August 29th, 2005 at 6:23 am

65. RK says:

    “I can understand this for home use, but is any business really going to embrace “FREE” software like this? Maybe the Mom and Pop business’ will but not the IBM’s and the like. Where would business people go for tech support?”

    Hello, remember FireFox, Apache, Linux???

    August 29th, 2005 at 6:33 am

66. David says:

    I hardly consider this a complete review by any means. The spreadsheet, the most important tool used by anyone who runs a business or works with numbers, gets a mere 98 words.

    August 29th, 2005 at 6:38 am

67. Step says:

    Just read the article - I have to say I’m pretty disappointed. Not by the products reviewed, but by the reviewer. This really seemed like a poorly written and poorly thought-out article. What few points or information was provided was then repeated several times. I learned almost nothing from this article.
    I ask that the author next time either spend his time covering the application he does have experience with (in this case, the word processing segment), or spend more time preparing for the article by actually using all of the components (of both products) that he intends to review. In short, much more detail and information should have been conveyed in an article of this length.

    August 29th, 2005 at 6:49 am

68. John T. Haller says:

    Don’t forget another advantage OpenOffice.org has over Microsoft Office… it’s portable:

    Portable OpenOffice.org:
    http://johnhaller.com/jh/useful_stuff/portable_openoffice/

    August 29th, 2005 at 7:02 am

69. gfranken says:

    One of the major design goals of the OpenOffice.org codeline 2.0 was MS-Office compatibility, both in terms of file formatting and conversion back and forth, but also in terms of look, feel, and operation. At least with OpenOffice.org Writer, that the OOo developers have been able to do this while maintaining the advantages of OOo Writer is little short of astounding. Users of the 1.x codeline will be very pleasantly surprised.

    I can’t speak for Calc, Impress, and Base as I haven’t used them extensively, but I have been using the 2.0 Writer betas since last Spring. Please note: I’m not using OOo Writer because it’s cheap–it is simply a better product.

    Anyone in business who is betting the farm on the MS-Office suite is making a mistake. Frankly, Microsoft’s only hope of keeping the MS-Office suite at the forefront is to massively give it away to public schools, along with giving away huge quantities of workbooks and teaching materials.

    August 29th, 2005 at 7:11 am

70. Ryan says:

    Just something to add:

    The OOo word processing app also beats MS Word hands down for importing drawings and figures and positioning them in your document.

    And also, about the OOo Draw program. I use it everytime I am writing a scientific document, it’s great for diagrams. But most of all, it is amazing for making Physics/Math cheat sheets when combined with OOo Math.

    August 29th, 2005 at 7:18 am

71. Alec says:

    I’ve been using OpenOffice for quite some time, and while I haven’t used the new beta, this appears to be one of the most biased, least reliable, worst reviews ever written. In the history of the universe (excluding aliens). I mean… was it just me or did you say that it doesn’t matter that it doesn’t have grammar check, because that means you learn English? ??!? Can you see microsoft putting on its ads for Longhorn “Now comes with no tech support! It’s a feature, because now you will have to learn to use windows.” ??!?? I don’t get it. If you had decided on the outcome before you tested the two competitors, why bother writing a review?

    August 29th, 2005 at 7:21 am

72. Alice says:

    We also did a piece with speed tests:

    http://www.realtechnews.com/posts/1436

    August 29th, 2005 at 7:24 am

73. Bob says:

    I am an attorney in solo practice. Currently, I have WordPerfect 12 (came with the machine), Word 2000 (had an old copy), and OpenOffice 1.9.122 installed. I have used both wordperfect and word quite a bit in various settings. For the past year or so, I have used openoffice as my primary word processor & spreadsheet application.

    When I worked for a firm, I had to deal with documents sent by clients and attorneys in every imaginable format. If your client sends you a document, you figure out how to work with it. If you are minimally technically adept, and moderately client-oriented this is rarely a problem.

    For simple documents, with no fancy formatting (frames, macros, unusual fonts) I have had no problem reading anything sent to me by anyone. When I send stuff out, I generally send it as a pdf, so I know it will arrive exactly as I wrote it. If they want it in another format, I certainly will comply-but do check it using the appropriate program. Of course, I realize that this step is not possible for everyone.

    What is missing in writer? Not much from word. I do miss reveal codes from wordperfect. There is no quicker way to fix funky screwed-up formatting issues. Writer sucks at printing envelopes and lables-I still use wordperfect for that. The database application is promising, but is still too buggy and crash-prone to be of practical use to me.
    Calc has always done what I needed it to do. I’ve run a couple of tests on spreadsheet interoperability with calc-no problems with everyday sort of tasks.

    What do I gain by using openoffice? I get to keep $150-that ain’t nuthing. I get to create pdf documents with ease. And, I don’t have to send MS more of my money than I have to. The recent NYtimes story revealing a sizeable donation by the Bill & Melinda Gates foundation to the Discovery Institute made me sick. They are never getting a dime from me again.

    August 29th, 2005 at 8:19 am

74. Alan says:

    MS Office is a very good suite and will cope with pretty much anything you throw at it, but it costs.
    OpenOffice is a very good suite and will cope with almost anything you throw at it, and it’s free.
    If maximum MS Office compatibility is essential, pay for MS Office; you won’t be disappointed. (And download PDFCreator from SourceForge to get the missing PDF capability for free.)
    If all you need is a competent office suite to create documents that are reasonably MS Office compatible, download OpenOffice; you won’t be disappointed, especially if cost is a consideration.
    If you absolutely have to submit your CV in Word format, write it in OpenOffice and get someone with Word to let you tidy it up before sending it.
    (This comes from someone who has travelled the whole road, from pre-Windows Wordstar to WordPerfect to Lotus to Office/OpenOffice.)

    August 29th, 2005 at 8:19 am

75. Technology Blog says:

    Real Tech News | Open Office 2.0 Kicks MS Office Around the Block

    David Johnson gives a long time user’s opinion of t Open Office 2.0. It’s a good read

    “Overall, I’ve found OpenOffice to be a fine MS Office replacement for my needs. OpenOffice’s word processor…

    August 29th, 2005 at 8:40 am

76. Relishguy says:

    The funny thing is that the article closes by saying what a student should do with the school year coming up. And at academicsuperstore.com, Office 2003 professional costs $159.

    Now why use Open Office again?

    Regards..

    August 29th, 2005 at 8:52 am

77. MaxQ says:

    OpenOffice Impress har a lot of functions PowerPoint don’t. Impress was the first application I started using instead regular even when I still had Microsoft Office installed. Impress is really great!

    August 29th, 2005 at 9:10 am

78. David Johnston says:

    I do own MS Office XP. I said that in the first paragraph. I’ve used it and I’ve also used Office 2003 for doing my statistics assignments because the software we used was only on lab computers with MS Office. From my experiences with it, Office 2003 was worse than XP for inserting images (such as graphs).

    BTW, I didn’t get paid or ask to get paid for this review. I don’t do it for money, I’m just trying to share my experience. I’m no IT professional and I don’t claim to be. I even said I’m just a college student. I wrote this in free time, and yes, it had one typo. I’m sorry that you guys go around *looking* for faults with everything you see, but it’s your choice to do so. Most of you probably won’t even read this, oh well.

    August 29th, 2005 at 9:20 am

79. This is funny says:

    Somebody mentioned OO being good for simple documents. I urge them to try to write a thesis (or any large document of your choosing) and then make a change in the document. It will screw up the document beyond repair. I’ve gone through one of these experiences. The problem is these office programs try to be clever and do the layout for you but they never get it right. They have too many features that will be hardly ever used. I use MS office because I got it free (through school). I wouldn’t try OO because open source is almost never ready (except a few very succesful ones such as firefox and thunderbird) but make you jump hoops because they mimick MS or others.

    So, if you have a complex document with tables and graphs and images, none will work perfectly. You’re geeky enough then use Tex and have the perfect looking outcomes. MS Office is popular because it works 99% of the time for 99% of the people. What we need is a simple tool that will have tables, images and no fancy word art garbage.

    August 29th, 2005 at 9:53 am

80. This is funny says:

    Sorry for the mistake I made above. The first paragraph should have been:

    Somebody mentioned OO being good for simple documents. I urge them to try to write a thesis *in MS WORD* (or any large document of your choosing) and then make a change in the document. It will screw up the document beyond repair.

    August 29th, 2005 at 9:55 am

81. Alice says:

    I want to second David Johnston’s post (#78) 1) he was the reviewer and he did it for free (on a nice summer weekend no less.)2) He never suggested that OpenOffice become an enterprise solution at some huge corporation, but that for most people it was worth a try and it’s a high quality FREE beta. 3) PC Magazine gave the same product 4 stars, so I don’t see why David’s review is any less professional - in fact for a college student, I have been blown away but the quality of his writing, the dedication he has to processors, benchmarking, open source software, etc. and his abaility to convey his opinion is excellent.

    August 29th, 2005 at 10:17 am

82. ue says:

    I see lots of comments saying that you can’t use OOo in business because everybody else is not. This is pure BS. My sister in law has a company that uses it on all their desktops (about 4000 of them) and they don’t have any problems communicating with their customers. I use it in my business (only 7 employees) and I have found no problems using it.

    Who in their right mind would send out MS-Word document to customers? For that you use PDF, that is much more secure for you
    and your customer. Now I tell you the secret, OpenOffice is much better at creating PDF than MSO.

    Besides the compatibility between different versions of MSO is highly overrated. There is absolutely nothing that says that a document created on one machine looks the same on another even if the same version of MSO is used. To make it look alike you also need to have the same fonts installed, and the same normal.dot. Not to mention all problems you get if you have different versions in each end perhaps even running on different OSes.

    In my oppinion the question if you can benefit from OpenOffice or not much more depend on how much macros you use in your documents.
    The basic of MS-Office and OpenOffice differs slighly so you would probably have to rewrite things like that if you switch from MSO to OOo.

    As for not reading programmer resumes written in OOo, that is plain stupid. If EU-governments can read odt, so can you. (The odt file format is one of the approved document format for use in the EU). Most programmers I know have no intention to take a liftime opportuity of working as Dirbert for a pointy haired boss.

    BTW, today StarOffice and OpenOffice have about 10% of the Swedish market for Office products. And that was for the 1.1.x version that was far less MSO compatible than this new soon to be released version 2.0. You don’t get that kind of figures just from home users. Most home users are not even aware of the existance of other Office suites than the ones from Redmond.

    August 29th, 2005 at 10:59 am

83. ue says:

    BTW, for those of you that followed the link and read the original article in PC-mag. That article falsely states that OpenOffice.org
    lacks pivot tables. The functionality exists it but is called data pilots.

    August 29th, 2005 at 11:11 am

84. Alice says:

    Some interesting comments from Fark:

    ==========================
    Open Office is not nearly as difficult or touchy to use as many people in this thread are saying. I have never had any problems converting to the more popular formats. Methinks that many people posting are either:

    1. Idiots, due to never even trying the software.
    2. Idiots, due to never attempting to learn the software.
    3. Idiots, for thinking open source is for “techno-hippies” and for also having a bias against such a ridiculous label.
    4. Smart, due to actually learning how to use the software with moderate proficiency before formulating an opinion whether or not it works for oneself.
    ==============================

    Open Office is good for the following reasons:

    1) You can turn autocorrect off and it ACTUALY STAYS OFF. I wrestled with Words autocorrect for weeks during my Chemistry class in highschool trying to convince it that Iron Bromite (FeBr2) isn’t February 2nd.

    2) It can open just about any text file type you throw at it and understand it without much trouble. While Word is also reasonable at this I’ve found some creative formats over the past few years that word had no clue about but OO was able to handle.

    3) It’s free…Cant beat that price.

    4) Its ported to just about every platform out there, thus if you use multiple OSes you can easily swap between them and use the same documents.

    Reasons it sucks:

    1) latest Linux release has no src rpm that I can find, sloppy and lame. Sloppy, and, lame.

    2) the spreadsheet program could definitely use some more functions and a better interface for learning them.

    3) That crashing on save bug in the spreadsheet program, why the fark hasnt that been fixed yet? for christs sakes people, it HANGS UP. Toss a pant load of debug log statements in and crash it a few times, find out whats hanging it, and fix it. Thats a MAJOR bug! (For the people about to say ‘never had that issue’, its something about an environmental variable getting memstomped that causes it to happen, its not an excessivly common bug, but it is a known issue and has been around for several versions)

    4) It memory hogs like GIMP does on Linux.

    I give it four gold stars. What I want, is my good old ClarisWorks back. That was a great set of software.
    =======================

    August 29th, 2005 at 11:30 am

85. Joe says:

    OO for science????

    I cannot believe this review and all of you have not mentioned OpenOffice’s incompatability with refrencing software like EndNote. When writing scientific literature, as I do, where you have hundreds of references, EndNote is a MUST. The fact that OO does not work with EndNote is the reason I bought MS Office, and will continue to use it. EndNote offers the ability to look up what journal I’m submitting to, and automatically formats all my references for that journal. What a relief! Does anyone know of a Linux-based or OS version of a program like EndNote???

    August 29th, 2005 at 11:57 am

86. Bob Robertson says:

    Am I the only person in the world who keeps my resume in plain ascii text? Last I checked, every word processor imports it, and exports it, just fine.

    Posting 23 is interesting. Only an irrational person would use a product which was incompatible with anything else, and then complain that people send them incompatible files.

    Anyone receiving files would be rational to use OpenOffice.org themselves, if only because it can deal with MS Word *and* OpenOffice files just fine.

    August 29th, 2005 at 11:59 am

87. Bob Robertson says:

    Joe, have you considered writing to the authors of EndNote and asking them why they haven’t provided a Linux version of their software?

    August 29th, 2005 at 12:02 pm

88. Mick says:

    uhmmmm, rethink… the topic it isn´t about free… the point is what we can do with the resources available…

    it´s not fair to be a beta tester paying for the software… that´s microsoft way… as much we try OO it gets better without paying…

    rethink…

    August 29th, 2005 at 12:21 pm

89. Tom says:

    “it´s not fair to be a beta tester paying for the software… that´s microsoft way… as much we try OO it gets better without paying…

    rethink… ”

    True, but if you have a problem with MS office you can call or use extensive help, or the hundreds of support sites that are out there for it. You have a problem with OO you are farked.

    Also - Microsoft will bill you $150/hr when you call for support if not under warranty. Every hour after the first it is billed back to the production teams budget. So what motivation does OO have that MS Office doesn’t?

    And as much as people hate Microsoft, they do have some of the smartest people working for them.

    August 29th, 2005 at 12:49 pm

90. Santtu says:

    Did my paper with OpenOffice Writer and I regret that choice. Had hard time to just keep it up and running for one hour. And somewhat hard to put pagenumbers in OO. I’m sticking with MS Office for now, but OO is getting better.

    August 29th, 2005 at 12:56 pm

91. Armanox says:

    Hmmm…I’m well familiar with Open Office, MS Office, and Claris Works(5.0)(Now AppleWorks). Everyone of them has there ins and outs, yet I’ll say this:

    1. Open Office is not for those of us who still have some really old (P1 and i486) computers. But then again, niether is office xp. I have one computer at home that runs Word 2.0, and I can still use it for any word processing need that comes up. Same with Word Perfect 5.1 for DOS

    2. Nothing will be 100% compatible. Try importing WP5.1 DOS to OfficeXP. Do you really think the everything works right?

    3. For those of us that support the open source community horay open office. I know that I have it installed under RH9, FC4, Win98SE and WinXP. For Win3.1 I use word perfect or Word 2.0. For Macs, AppleWorks is works great for OS 8.6. But do I have compatiblity issues? Yes! That’s what we have ASCII and RTF for!

    August 29th, 2005 at 1:13 pm

92. Clive says:

    Draw is fantastic for making a pdf file of an AutoCAD engineering drawing. AutoCAD is the predominant drawing software in Europe for engineering drawings and when you receive a .dxf file from a client you INSERT -> Graphics and insert the .dxf file. Then scale it up to fit the drawing paper size. You can then expeort it as a jpeg or as a pdf so that anyone can view the drawing who hasn’t got AutoCAD. It’s a fantastic feature of OpenOffice that MSOffice simply hasn’t got.

    August 29th, 2005 at 2:56 pm

93. Paul H. says:

    Joe: I didn’t know it was even possible to use a WP for scientific/mathematical typesetting, but I saw this earlier:

    http://jabref.sourceforge.net/

    though I haven’t tried it (obviously)…

    August 29th, 2005 at 3:07 pm

94. ue says:

    @84. OOo have very good bibliography functions of its own. You can store your litterature references in a almost any relational database (including the one that comes with OOo) or in the document as text.

    It’s true that it have no ready made templates for various publications, but in most diciplines of sciense there is not more than 20 or so that really counts for your specific speciality.
    A university department that frequently submits such papers would quickly develop OOo templates to do this.

    The only problem I see with OOo is that it only provides numerical references in the text e.g [1] or (1) and not reference like Lindgren 2003 or Kalman, Wittenberg et al. 1990. This can of course easily be fixed by a macro, but it would have been nice if it had been there from the start.

    August 29th, 2005 at 3:09 pm

95. Sid says:

    I for one enjoyed the review of Open Office and plan on downloading it this evening.

    When I was a secretary, I had all kinds of documents get messed up in Word, Word Perfect, Lotus, etc on all kinds of platforms and operating system. The only program that I ever found that worked consistently well was ClarisWorks on my Mac in high school and the first two years of college.

    In relation to the earlier discussion about resumes being submitted in Word format - most companies require Word or text format since they upload them into databases and then do keyword searches. In very large companies where I’ve worked, an admin assistant just uploads them so your resume isn’t even reviewed by a person.

    Of course you also have to remember those who can do, those can’t do anything work in HR ;~)

    Overall, good job David - and look at all the conversation you’ve generated

    August 29th, 2005 at 3:31 pm

96. Citrisquid says:

    Regarding support, I recall one time I needed a patch for Microsoft’s Visio, which addressed a specific, known bug. It even had its own Microsoft Knowledge Base entry. It listed the archive file and its contents. However, it was not available for download; you had to call Microsoft and have them e-mail it to you! And, of course, they had a minumum charge around $30 for that call. After allready paying around $200 for broken software, why should I have to pay for a patch?

    That’s the kind of “support” you get for MS Office. Even their EULA says very clearly they’re not to be held responsible and make no guarantees. So why am I paying $500 more than OpenOffice.org? Is there really that much more extra value?

    August 29th, 2005 at 3:48 pm

97. David Norris says:

    Got to love this sentence from the 4th paragraph:

    “OpenOffice includes A ITS own equivalents to Powerpoint and Excel….”

    If he used Word’s grammar checker it would have caught this problem. I saw it with my own eyes.

    Too funny.

    August 29th, 2005 at 6:28 pm

98. Mosquito says:

    I have not used an word processor to produce my resume at all. Originally, I had used OpenOffice and distributed my resume in PDF using OO’s PDF export (very handy). Then, I learned how to use LaTeX. Since then, I rewrote my resume in LaTex. My resume is now stored in a small clean text file with some basic LaTeX markup. I just run LaTeX (pdflatex) and out comes my very professional looking resume in PDF. Since I have switched to LaTeX, I have gotten over a dozen calls from employers for interviews and got my current job.

    August 29th, 2005 at 7:10 pm

99. Tom says:

    @myname2

    You trash every resume you can’t read? So if somebody sends you a document written Word 97 and you can’t open it in Word xyz you trash it? if somebody sends you a document written with the same version of Word you have but with a different printer driver installed than yours, you trash it? Now that’s what I call an equal opportunity employer. Thanks but no thanks! Do you at least specify that you want the documents written in Word xyz with printer zyx installed? Or do you simply not give a toss because it saves you some work?

    When OOo will be 100% compatible to MSO? The day MS opens the .doc format! This will be the day _every_ wordprocessor on the planet will be 100% compatible to Word.

    MS sits on the specs for its screwed formats (in fact so screwed up, that they can’t handle it themselves!) and people like you blame the competitors to not being able to provide 100% compatibility. MS is supposedly advocating interoperability with other systems but sits on its file formats like a chook on an egg, in an ongoing attempt to cripple the competition and keep its defacto monopoly on office software.

    Several times a week, I get requests from collegues asking me to open and print a Word document, because their Word 2003 can’t open it. These are usually created with MSO for Mac, with out the documents being flagged as Windows compatible, or versions of Word prior to 2003. I fire up OOo 1.1.4, open them without any hassles, save them back as .doc and here we go, even Word 2003 can open it.

    .doc is a bloated, ever and ever extended piece of patchwork wich is way past its use-by-date. Even MS has realised this and the next version of MSO will use an XML-based format, giving .doc the long overdue boot.

    I actually get quite cheesed off when people email Word documents. You never know what payload comes with them (i.e. several macro-virii), whether we’ll be able to open them and if we are, what they’ll look like.

    August 29th, 2005 at 9:41 pm

100. Paul H. says:

     Heh! Joe writes his scientific papers in a word processor and Mosquito writes his résumé in LaTeX. It reminds me of a TeX illiterate physics student once sending me a problem he was having trouble with in a .doc, and me having to download and install a copy of OpenOffice just to read it. As a matter of courtesy, and since I had OO up and running, I thought I’d try to write up the answer in OO and send it back as a .doc too. Never again.

     August 30th, 2005 at 12:10 am

101. BlackTiger says:

     MSO - the best! OO - sucks! Realy!

     Try to compare Pivot/Pilot between MSO and OO.
     Also OO is damn slow and eats memory like elephant.

     August 30th, 2005 at 2:18 am

102. ue says:

     @94. If a company can’t accept programmer resumes in other formats than MS-Office or because thats the only format that fits their database system, then the IT-knowledge of that company probably is at such low level that getting employed would hurt your carrear.

     Sure, I understand that it wouldn’t be possible to support every word processor format there is in the world, but pdf is very comman for document transfer outside of your organization, perhaps more comman than MS-Office. There also exists programs that resonably well extracts the infomation from a pdf as text, html or even rtf. Some of them are even free software. A deacent system would even handle paper documents by scanning and OCRing them.

     As an employer I prefer plain test resumes. T’m sure I can read them, or index them and search them. I’m sure they don’t contain any macro viruses, I’m resonably sure thet they don’t contain any malign buffer overflow exploits. That doesn’t mean that I don’t try to look at other formats, but getting them in plain text limits my needs for security precations. as most business documents a resume doesn’t usually need to be good looking.

     Business documents need to be readable and clearly formulated. After all, it was not that long ago all business documents was written on typewriters with far less possibilities to style a document than you have even in the simplest word processor or in html a html editor.
     So sure OOo is more than good enough for business.

     August 30th, 2005 at 4:38 am

103. Graham says:

     A couple points here: (for context I’ve run linux for almost 3 years now, before that windows since 96, and before that mac since 1987. We won’t go into why I strayed to the dark side for so long.)

     While I think requiring MS Word format for a resume is ridiculous, you ALWAYS do whatever the employer asks; if he wants perfumed rose paper with green lettering, you do it. The ability to follow instructions is tested on the stupid little stuff like this. If you’re ever faced with 500 resumes, the smallest thing will be more than reason enough to throw away 450 of them before reading a SINGLE ONE. Like it or not, that’s how hiring works and it’s not about to change.

     Also, I’d like to ask what on earth is myname2 doing writing software on windows? The biggest hat on the bigest ass of the hugest asshat of an os ever conceived by homonids? If you write software YOU KNOW BETTER THAN THAT!

     Last thing about the huge resume format debacle before I move on: Saying that you require msword just because the majority of businesses us msword is a cyclical argument. Nothing will ever change if the entire tech industry sits there and says “I won’t change unless HE changes first!” Grow a pair and do something about it. You give OOo 10 out of 10 on features? Use it then! Start a trend. Be original. THINK FOR YOURSELF!

     OK, having used WordPerfect, Claris, MS Works, MS Word 97 - 2003, AbiWord (nice), and OOo, I feel qualified to offer my 2 cents (sorry to you StarOffice folks, just haven’t gotten around to it yet). As a Civil Engineering student, I get my fair share of technical papers to write, and MS Word’s attempts to intuitively guess how I want my chapters numbered and indented are pathetic and never right. Not rarely right: never right. I challenge MS to either fix AutoFormat or (more likely) can it like they usually do to features that don’t pan out. The MS equation editor just plain blows. Especially for multiple formulas. OOo wins hands down on both counts which are of particular importance to me. The compatibility with other word processors is amazing and the export to PDF feature (mentioned earlier by someone else) is everything it’s cracked up to be. That said if I’m just writing a letter or memo, give me AbiWord anytime. If OOo is slick and fast, AbiWord is slicker and faster. It’s downfall is the lack of features needed for technical papers and the not-so-flawless inter-platform conversions.

     On the spreadsheet front (Calc), things are more bleak. If you’re doing anything with graphs more than “ooh look I made a line” in OOo you’re pooched. I find the graph editing tools to be garbage. There’s also a few of the trickier functions not present in OOo, that I miss. Thes emight be fixed in 2.0 I don’t know, but I’m holding my breath. Until then I have to use excel for my number crunching. Now if you have to run statistics, I highly recommend Gnumeric. Same problems as OOo with graph editing and higher functions, but awesome statistical package and a fast and sleek UI.

     Well that’s it for me.

     August 30th, 2005 at 6:41 am

104. George Fragos says:

     I’m a life long MS Office user and a year ago, I left the evil empire behind. Openoffice has improved greatly even with the 2.0 beta. I regularly swap files with Windows users. RTF has always been the most consistent file format between versions of Word. Some handhelds like the old Zaurus even used it. I’ve sent RTF resumes for years when MS Word was required. From a user perspective RTF and DOC are the same — click on the icon, same for both formats, and MS Word opens it. My experience goes from one pagers to 250 documents with graphics and tables. I used OO but provide these docs to others in RTF or DOC formats. No problems were encountered. My normal shared format however is PDF which virtually every computer can read for free — even Windows PCs. The 1.1.x versions of Impress did have some conversion issues with Powerpoint. I haven’t seen those issues with the more recent beta releases of OO 2.0. I have created a number of complex presentations with Impress which were well recieved when view with Powerpoit. Hear again I prefer distribution in PDF format. All OO applications support free PDF output. I not a big user of Excel charts, too limited for my needs but, for bread and butter spread sheets OO and Excel swap back and forth without event for me. This includes time sheets formated to match hard copy forms for applications like time sheets. There is no longer a need to use MS Office for word processing, spread sheets and presentations. I can’t speak to the data base since I have little experience with either. If you approach OO with a negative attitude I’m sure you can find something you don’t like or for that matter may be superior in some way with MS Office. The same is true in reverse. If you want OO to work for you it will do nicely and save you both money and the pain associated with MS changinging file formats accross releases.

     August 30th, 2005 at 10:03 am

105. Alan Barnard says:

     If a company only accepts .doc files then I presume that you are applying for a Visual Basic programming job or a supermarket shelf-stacking job.

     .doc is an internal format for editing Word files, they are made for printing on the specified printer, using them to distribute finished documents is ridiculous.

     .pdf is the most useful format for complex documents, I have found that saving Word files as .rtf can produce files too big to e-mail, .pdf is quite compact and prevents anyone ‘unclipping’ your pictures or otherwise gaining access to anything ‘hidden’.

     I have not tried the latest OO.org, but I must say that I have NEVER been able to open a .doc file in it, but then I do go in for making good use of complex formatting.

     August 30th, 2005 at 12:05 pm

106. Stomfi says:

     I use OO2 for writing articles for the web which usually include pictures. I save these in OO format and then in html format. OO saves the html and all the pictures as separate files which is great for my publisher. The only thing it doesn’t do is save the indentation, which is a bit of a pain as I write a lot of shell scripts.
     In the past I used to have to save files in doc format when sending them to other people, but now everyone seems to have a copy of OO and can open these files without a murmer.
     Having been a long term user of OO even when it was Star Office from Germany, I even take a copy with me when I do in house consulting jobs and leave it behind when I leave.
     The only program I miss from the old days is Lotus Approach, as you could create relations in that a lot easier than any other desktop database I’ve come across. I once tried to rewrite a 7 file Approach database into Access and gave up in digust after 3 days, since the original only took one day to create.
     Pity IBM doesn’t Open Source that one.

     August 31st, 2005 at 12:27 am

107. Amused Asshat says:

     Tee hee, just following the recruiter thread for a few laughs.

     What happens if your big Corporate Client - IBM, Sun, Novell, SHELL (Yes, Shell), BBC, European Union, … (well, you get the idea) ask you to hire a Linux expert (aren’t we all?) ?

     What do you do then?

     Look for the asshat with the worst formatted CV in Word format?

     Even Microsoft attented LinuxWorld. Could it be they’re hiring Linux skills?

     August 31st, 2005 at 3:12 pm

108. robert says:

     @joe, re:#85 OO for science?

     I’m not sure what area of science you are in but the standard typesetter for Physics, Mathematics, Computer Science and (to some extent) theoretical Chemistry is TeX/LaTex.

     If you write scientific papers for a living you owe it to yourself to learn TeX/LaTeX. See for example: http://www.arxiv.org/ for a site that absolutely rolls in TeX and LaTex.

     —

     @myname2:

     Why the hell do you require software developers to send their resumes in Word format only and trash those who don’t? Do you have any real experience at all managing software developers? Or are you just a headhunter?

     Software developers work with PROGRAMMING EDITORS 99.9% of the time and those editors save their files in plain-text format! I would expect developers to use the tool most convenient for them and MS Word shouldn’t be it!

     Not that I would trash CVs in doc format but I would find that to be rather curious in a software developer.

     —
     Wordprocessors, typesetters and desktop publishing packages have their respective areas of applicability. The problem with office suites like MS Word and OO (yes, you too) is that they try to be all things to all people. The result is, as old folks would say: Jack of all trades, master of none.

     1. Basic wordprocessing like form letters and correspondence, OO is more than enough. Abiword is good enough for this case too.

     2. One or two page documents with complex text formatting and graphics: flyers, brochures, etc., you need a desktop publishing package. Neither MS Word nor OO can handle this area very well. I just hate the lack of control over kerning, leading and spacing in the leading wordprocessors. If you don’t understand what I just meant then OO is definitely 99.9% appropriate for you.

     3. Scientific papers; documents exceeding 10 pages like novels and reports; or in general those documents whose content is actually meant to be read rather than looked at: Go for the markup-language-oriented-typesetters like TeX/LaTeX or even GROFF if you care to.

     If you have never seen output from TeX or LaTeX I guarantee you will be amazed by what computer typesetting is actually capable of. The output has a very professional look, as if it was typeset by a publishing company. Most Word documents I have run into look like reports turned in by gradeschool students: totally unprofessional in appearance.

     TeX/LaTeX achieves this because it spends a lot of processor time making sure that the output looks good. For example, it will replace certain letter sequences like “ff”, “if”, etc, with ligatures. You don’t even have to worry about that, TeX will make this change for you automagically.

     The typesetter will also spend time adjusting the kerning of lines so that characters that should align on a column are really aligned “visually” rather than mechanically.

     Me? I use TeX and LaTeX most of the time. Maybe because I am a software developer.

     My opinion? OpenOffice already works 99.9% of the time for 90% of all users. Home users who insist on MS Word are only doing so because they are MS fanatics and are not pragmatic enough to realize that software is meant to be used and is not meant to be loved and petted like a ferrari or a porsche. People put up with the uncomfortable seats of a Lamborghini because it is a Lamborghini. I don’t think we should put up with the defects and orneriness of windows products because it is not a Ferrari.

     The only use I have for Windows these days is Adobe Pagemaker. If Adobe ports that product to Linux I will be able to erase that last partition of Windows on one of my notebooks at long last.

     (PS: I think Linux is a Ferrari F1. Difficult to handle, difficult to drive, but man!, what a ride!)

     September 10th, 2005 at 8:55 pm

109. Sean says:

     Owning a distribution company and sometimes having to deal with recruiters hiring for technical positions that obviously have no technical experience themselves is pointless.

     It seems to me that this “headhunter” is a typical cut/paste recruiter that will send you a Windows admin with 1 year experience when you are trying to hire an Oracle DBA.

     He is wanting a Word document so he can cut/paste your resume to his own letterhead to spam his clients with 50 useless candidates.

     October 20th, 2005 at 9:00 am

110. Tony Fabian says:

     why compare open office to a 5 (five) years old version of MS Office. Why not be fair and compare it to Office 2003? Will we allso se a comparison by the latest linux build vs Windows 2000??

     get your act together, Alice Hill !!

     October 20th, 2005 at 9:46 am

111. Alice says:

     Our writer didn’t have a copy and I cannot legally send him mine. We will get him a copy asap now that 2.0 is out and do the definitive comparo.

     October 20th, 2005 at 9:59 am

112. Joy says:

     For a Powerpoint user the biggest problem in switching to Open Office on Linux is the INABILITY to insert video in the presentation.
     Till this is achieved, there cannot be a complete switch to either Linux or Open Office

     October 20th, 2005 at 10:10 am

113. BobPaul says:

     In response to John number 6)
     The compatibility problem between OpenOffice and MS Office (and really, anything and MS Office) lies only in slight formatting. If all of your documents use lots of floating text boxes and floating images, you’ll find these aren’t alwasy in the same location if you use 1 product vs the other. However, if you’re mostly writing thesis and using space bar, tab key and enter to position your elements, they turn out identical.

     In any event, how many times do you honestly give a customer a *.doc file they can edit? Customers should recieve PDFs they cannot edit, and this is something that can be created for free in OpenOffice.

     October 20th, 2005 at 11:44 am

114. justme says:

     “While I think requiring MS Word format for a resume is ridiculous, you ALWAYS do whatever the employer asks; if he wants perfumed rose paper with green lettering, you do it.”

     If an employer asks you to spit shine his shoes before you’re hired, would you do it?

     Maybe you would, but I won’t.

     October 20th, 2005 at 10:38 pm

115. OldNick says:

     Well, I was not that impressed by the review, as the reviewer seems to have used only one portion of the programme to any depth. However, ironically, I tend to agree with his lukewarm feelings toward the database.

     I downloaded and tried Open Office. I have had very little but trouble.

     I tried to open an Access database. It would let me, but I then could not use it. As far as I could seem Help was minimla on this subject, wityh a lot of emphasisi on the other bits (Word, calc etc).

     I the end I found out that I could link to the database, but opening an ODBC link (got this from the Web after some searching) and this then saved a .odb file anyway. Still no forms etc.

     I then tried to create forms. Creation was IMO easier than in Access, but then:
     - I had crash after crash, just opening a form and closing it. I could make this happen twice in any 5 minute period. This also happened when I simply started a new database in OO. very simple. Two fields, no relations, one Autonumber field and the other a text field. Built in the Wizard. Allow the form to enter new data only. Open the form. Enter no data close. crash. Just did it again with a new form.
     - When I tried to look at the imported database, it seemed to have created an extra table. I am not sure why. The table is definitely not on the Access programme.
     - I had a Memo field in the database. This emerged as a SQL nul[] field, and nothing I could do except to strip the field and its data would make this go away. This also resulted in at least one crash. Ironically, there is a Memo field native to OO!
     - I could not see a way to export the database to other formats. I thought this was supposed to be available and that was the strength. here I could be wrong, but the Export was greyed out whichever way I approached it.

     I have posted several requests for help and bitches about this on the forums and reported the problems as requested by the developers. So far no feedback. Maybe I am the only one….

     So I would not consider myself experienced with this beasty, but I am struggling to make myself think I ever will be.

     October 26th, 2005 at 1:31 am

116. csv says:

     I’m still not convinced.

     November 4th, 2005 at 11:25 am

117. Daniel says:

     I read through most of these comments and the ones about MS Office being the standard is pretty true but also very short sighted. Yes MS Office is very common in the “recognised” IT industry. Yet this covers perhaps 25% of the world population. As more countries in Africa and China for example develop IT industries, and don’t discount this just because they are seemed as being poor, etc - they represent millions of PC’s - and the move for this will be low cost computing, ie Linux and OpenOffice equivalents.

     Give it ten years, perhaps maybe we’ll see a larger development in this part of the world and I would expect a whole shift in market share for software companies. In fact many councils and governments in Europe are moving to Open Souce due to cost (if you have 10 000 licenses of MS Office at $300/pc thats $3million, very significant cost for upgrading, and software generally is a significant capital cost to companies which needs to return 6%+ to justify) and the vision that documents will be readable in the long term based on open formats. Life of data will become very important!

     Consider this:

     50 years ago everything was hand typed, and therefore there was hard copies of all information. Now information is less likely to be stored in hard format and therefore its time persistence will be determined by having the appropriate software to read the data. Open Office WILL become a major industry player in the future, although perhaps not in the traditonal markets as we recognise them as largely western societies.

     Oh and btw, anyone who sends business documents to external parties in an editable format such as .doc or whatever is just a fool. I always use PDF at work for sending external docs, especially spreadsheets. Only a company waiting for disaster releases edible documents of a business nature to clients, etc.

     November 18th, 2005 at 3:07 pm

118. Daniel says:

     My last comment, “editable”, I didn’t mean to imply that you could have business documents for food…

     November 18th, 2005 at